Encounters: The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed!/Encounters - The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed (1995).iso/altalien/alt24.txt

Text File | 1995-10-20 | 902KB | 20,168 lines

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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: status poll for News article
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 22:54:10 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|> >Ok Alt.alien.visitors,
|> >
|> >Can the readers out there send me a reply as to whether they:
|> >( when I state UFO's ...you know what mean...for you comics out there)
|>
|> You mean alien spacecraft?  Then why don't you say so?  I can't

I'm not writing a for a scientific journal.  Do you really expect me to put this
poll in terms of exact scienticic terminology or legal jargon??   Get a clue,
 and stop being hinderence.

|> choose one of those options.  That has nothing to do with comics,
|> it's just that I can't take you seriously when your choice of
|> words indicates that you don't even think for a second about what
|> you say.
|>
|> Especially I don't understand 10).

see the above reply.

|>
|> >10) UFO's don't exist here or elsewhere.
|>
|> Does that mean:  Aliens don't exist on earth or elsewhere,
|> or: Alien spacecraft don't exist on earth or elsewhere,
|> or: they (whatever) never did and never will,
|> or what?

Most people can follow a sequence.  Obviously, you can't.

For you I will rewrite the option:

10)  I BELIEVE that UFO's/aliens don't exist
here (On Earth or anywhere within a parsec) or elsewhere (meaning anywhere is
this universe or any other universe, if it exists.)

|>
|> Is it a coincidence that this doesn't start with "Believe",
|> or is everybody who chooses that point a Dogmatic Disbeliever
|> who doesn't even know that his opinion is only an opinion?
|>
|> --
|> -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
|> Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!




Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: reasons for NASA disclosure
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 23:11:48 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jack Churchill) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:
|> > Disclaimer: I neither believe nor disbelieve in UFO's, etc.  I'm happily
|> > sitting on the fence waiting for further evidence, one way or the other.
|> > The following reply may seem a little harsh, but without supporting evidence
|> > you don't have a leg to stand on.
|>
|> My exact feelings.
|>
|> > In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> >
|> >>Someone asked: "Why would the government allow that to be shown on TV?".|> >
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I WROTE THIS.               NOT THIS.


|> > You're supposing of course that the government controls every aspect of what
|> > is shown on TV and can therefore dictate what is and isn't shown.
|> >
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I DID NOT WRITE THE ABOVE.


|> >>As the on theory goes: The Government is slowly allowing more and more info out
|> >>to the public as to soften the blow of reality when our ancestors return from
|> >>whatever part of the universe they are coming from.
|> >
HERE, I WROTE THE ABOVE.


|> > Facts Brick.  Where's the facts?  You have the good basis for a SF/conspiracy
|> > novel though I'll grant you. :-)

READ THE ABOVE.   "As the theory on theory goes: ..."  I didn't originate this theory.

|>
|> Actually there was a SF movie done some time ago on this.  Can't remember the
|> name though - irrelevant.
|>
|> I'm tired of all these UFO reports, etc.  I have an open mind (when I was a kid
|> I believed in aliens and all that) and will remain this way unless real hard
|> proof is shown for all to see.
|>
|> --
|>   Jack N. Churchill                            | [e-mail]


Just clarifing,

Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Subject: Re: Whitley Shreiber
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 23:19:56 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael T. Glazier) writes:
|> Needed:
|>
|> An e*mail, p.o. box, or c/o address for Whitley Shreiber.
|>
|> Thank You.
|>
|> [e-mail]
             ^^^^^^
Hey, University of Michigan people aren't allowed in this group!  :)

A rival from Michigan State,

Brick


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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Marc Milanini) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gerry Roston) writes:
|> >There is NO scientifically valid evidence, what-so-ever, to suggest
|> >that our planet has been visited by extra-terrestrial beings.  Does
[ stuff deleted]

|>
|> I can see Tipler's theory hiding between your argument. Do you think
|> that, if ETs visited the Earth one million years ago, we should have
|> evidence of it ? The proportion of the surface of our planet investigated

Well actually there is this one curious bit of archeology note.
They found a stone that was dated back, I believe, 1 or 100 million years ago,
and INSIDE of it was a perfectly cylindrical, metal object.  This metal object
was analysed to be something like 99.9999% pure magnesium.

Anyone else read this?  It was also in the documentary: "The outerspace
connection".



Brick

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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Aurora
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tripp Wallin) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> |> I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday.
|> |> I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles
|> |> that I was to write for some newspapers.  These articles are about the UFO
|> |> controversy.  Anyways,  I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the
|> |> shuttle.  He said, no.
|> |>
|> |>  As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know
|> |> what it was that shot up...a lasar."  I said, "A lasar?  How do you know that?"
|> |> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space.  I've seen actual
|> |> footage of it.  Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them
|> |> making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it."
|> |>
|> |> I thought this was interesting.  So I did some research.
|> |>
|> |> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!!
|> |>
|> |> And get this,  the name of the lasar is   A U R O R A ! ! ! !
|> |>
|> |> Bizzzzzaaaaarrrreeee!
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |> Brick
|>   I really don't find it that Bizzzzzaaaarrrreeee! that Los Alamos National
No, not the laser being Bizzzzarre, but the name....AURORA.

|>   Laboratory would have a laser that big. I mean they do fusion research there
|>   and well it kinda uses very large lasers to do the experiments. I believe the
|>   place where you confirmed your information from (some journal on fusion research
|>   perhaps) should have told you this too. And a laser that size I really doubt could
|>   have been aimed into space becuase it has to be huge and moving it would undoubtly
|>   be hard. Anyways why would they want to aim it into space, even a laser that big
|>   will probably become incoherent by the time it got to the upper atmosphere so it
|>   would be pretty useless. If I'm wrong please tell me don't flame me.
|>
They shoot lasers up to moon to do calculations.  They themselves have to be darn
powerful and have a very, very narrow beam leaving the earth in order to not
diffuse to much by the time it reaches the moon.  Needless to say that it has to
be bounced back down again, getting further diffused...unless they somehow
*compress* the beam back again before it returns.

|>   Tripp Wallin
|>   Physics and Math Undergraduate
|>   [e-mail]


Brick
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Grays
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 18:22:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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QUIT
QUIT
This is a test.
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From: [e-mail] (Tripp Wallin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 01:54:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: arizona.1992Jun19.185449.3366
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tripp Wallin) writes:
|> |> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> |> |> I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday.
|> |> |> I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles
|> |> |> that I was to write for some newspapers.  These articles are about the UFO
|> |> |> controversy.  Anyways,  I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the
|> |> |> shuttle.  He said, no.
|> |> |>
|> |> |>  As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know
|> |> |> what it was that shot up...a lasar."  I said, "A lasar?  How do you know that?"
|> |> |> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space.  I've seen actual
|> |> |> footage of it.  Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them
|> |> |> making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it."
|> |> |>
|> |> |> I thought this was interesting.  So I did some research.
|> |> |>
|> |> |> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!!
|> |> |>
|> |> |> And get this,  the name of the lasar is   A U R O R A ! ! ! !
|> |> |>
|> |> |> Bizzzzzaaaaarrrreeee!
|> |> |>
|> |> |>
|> |> |>
|> |> |>
|> |> |> Brick
|> |>   I really don't find it that Bizzzzzaaaarrrreeee! that Los Alamos National
|> No, not the laser being Bizzzzarre, but the name....AURORA.
|>
|> |>   Laboratory would have a laser that big. I mean they do fusion research there
|> |>   and well it kinda uses very large lasers to do the experiments. I believe the
|> |>   place where you confirmed your information from (some journal on fusion research
|> |>   perhaps) should have told you this too. And a laser that size I really doubt could
|> |>   have been aimed into space becuase it has to be huge and moving it would undoubtly
|> |>   be hard. Anyways why would they want to aim it into space, even a laser that big
|> |>   will probably become incoherent by the time it got to the upper atmosphere so it
|> |>   would be pretty useless. If I'm wrong please tell me don't flame me.
|> |>
|> They shoot lasers up to moon to do calculations.  They themselves have to be darn
|> powerful and have a very, very narrow beam leaving the earth in order to not
|> diffuse to much by the time it reaches the moon.  Needless to say that it has to
|> be bounced back down again, getting further diffused...unless they somehow
|> *compress* the beam back again before it returns.
|>
|> |>   Tripp Wallin
|> |>   Physics and Math Undergraduate
|> |>   [e-mail]
|>
|>
|> Brick

   When I said the beam would become incoherent by the time it reached the upper atmosphere
   I didn't mean that it would diffuse. All in all incoherence and diffusion are the same
   things. Though I would suggest you get out an elementary optics text and look up coherence and
   incoherence. The special thing about a laser is that it doesn't lose its coherence after
   large distances like your common ordinary household light bulb does. And I don't see how
   making the beam thinner has anything to do with the beam not diffusing, unless they are
   making it so thin as to be on the order of the wavelength of light but that is ridiculous.
   I could understand them using a thin beam so as not to lose that much information from
   diffusion but the main reason I would think they would do it would be power reason. They
   are already making an extremely powerful laser it is hard to make one with a wider beam
   path. Oh and by the way all they use is prism on the moon for their reflections and they
   don't "*compress*" the beam back again either. If you know exactly, or even close for that
   matter, how far the original beam is spreadout you can retrieve the information without
   re-compression. I'm not sure how complicated this is but we did a similar problem like this
   in my Optics class last semester and mathmatically it wasn't that hard. And anyways to measure
   the distance to the moon using a laser all they need is the time the trip took and that
   is easy to do if you have a photo-multiplier handy.

   Tripp Wallin
   Physics and Math Undergraduate
   [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Steven Linke)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Only Lesson There Is - Pleiadians 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 03:42:23 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ted Powell) writes:
>
>On the off chance that not all the molecular biologists following these
>newsgroups would have read this far through the posting, I thought I'd
>highlight a part that caught my eye, and pose a question.
>
>>Your DNA is long strands of chromosomal matter stored inside the cells.
>[...further explanation of DNA coding...]
>>What the scientists have uncoded is perhaps one-millionth of what is there.
>[...explanation of junk DNA...]
>>When you come into body you carefully select a family that has a certain
>>lineage so that in the times that are coming, you are knowing that with
>>your assignment to bring light to the planet you will have the ability to
>>fire that which has been termed the junk DNA and to move into an awakening
>>of new abilities within yourselves. As you do this you will assist the rest
>>of mankind to do it.
>[...more in the same vein...]
>>You assist this activation when you get into what is called oxygenation of
>>the system. When you breathe. When you bring in oxygen into the body, it
>>fires the DNA coding and activates it.
>
>So, my question is: What, if any, tie-in is there between oxygenation
>and expression of DNA? (I'm not aware of any non-trivial connection
>myself, but I'm only an amateur in this area.)


There is NO connection between breathing more oxygen and gene
expression.

  Gene expression can be controlled at several levels within cells:

    1)  Transcriptional control (DNA to RNA)
    2)  RNA processing control (ex. splicing)
    3)  RNA transport control (selective export of RNA from the
        nucleus)
    4)  Translational control (RNA to protein)
    5)  mRNA degradation control
    6)  Protein activity control

  All of these processes are dependent on enzymatic controls of
proteins or are self-catalytic.  Oxygen is present in cells (it is
involved in energy reactions), but has nothing to do with these
mechanisms.  In fact, over-oxygenation can be harmful or even
lethal.







--
Steve Linke
Salk Institute (Gene Expression Lab)
La Jolla, CA
Internet: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Steven Linke)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Only Lesson There Is - Pleiadians 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 04:12:48 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Well since I can't see the DNA wakeup under a microscope (yet) I will
>have to speculate from my experiences.  It has been estimated that we
>only use 10% or so of our mind which may equate to only using 10% of
>our seven and a half foot DNA.  This is largley because most peoples
>breathing is atrophied.  They are taught and told if they breathe too
>much they will hyperventilate and that that is not good.  In truth
>hyperventilation is what happens when one has underventilated all of
>their lives and it is only the phenomena of the body finally getting
>enough oxygen.  What happens by not breathing or oxygenating enough
>is that emotions are stored in the body and not processed.  These
>stored emotions are the primary cause of disease and aging and lock
>down the DNA from activating.

I'm not sure if you are joking, but I will respond as if this were
serious.  It is true that scientists estimate that only about 10% of
the 3 billion base-pair human genome is expressed as functional
proteins (structural and enzymatic) and RNA.  However, the rest of
the DNA is not all "junk" DNA.  Major portions of DNA contained at
the ends of our 46 chromosomes (called telomers) gives structure
that is required for continued accurate replication of the DNA.
Other major portions of the DNA are contained at interior sites in
the chromosomes that serve as attachment points to separate the
replicated DNA when cells divide.  Other portions contain
un-transcribed regulatory regions, highly-repetitive interior
structure, etc.

As for your hot-tub hyperventilation theory (if you are being
serious--it is hard to tell), it is not only incorrect but could be
very dangerous.  Your body controls breathing based on the carbon
dioxide content of the blood.  When carbon dioxide levels increase,
you breathe harder to get more oxygen into your blood.  However,
when you breathe very fast or very deeply for extended periods, the
large amount oxygen that gets into your blood displaces more and
more carbon dioxide.  The decreasing concentration of carbon dioxide
in the blood eventually "fool" the body to stop breathing
completely.  If the person is not revived and his blood carbon
dioxide levels brought down, brain damage can occur.  Of course,
that is the worst case scenario, but the bottom line is heavy
breathing will not bring more oxygen to your DNA and lead to
expression of "junk" DNA--it will stay in your blood, screw up the
chemoreceptors that control your breathing, and may cause serious
medical problems.

Even if junk DNA does represent "old, unused" genes, it cannot be
expressed without the proper regulatory DNA elements and
uninterrupted reading frames.  In other words, NO WAY!!!!
Hyperventilation may make you light-headed or even give some sort of
a "buzz," but it is very dangerous to fool around with.  Do not do
it, and do not recommend that anybody else do it.


--
Steve Linke
Salk Institute (Gene Expression Lab)
La Jolla, CA
Internet: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Message-ID: <12070@rehder>
Date: 19 Jun 92 19:20:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.
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You idiots.  If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you
just get closer to where you think it appears.

By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are
pointed directly at you.  When they are turned off, you see the
filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds).  This is followed
by the normal red and green marker lights.

Can you say temperature inversion?  In other words, the actual
object you are seeing may be below the horizon.

When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't
prove anything.

_______________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier                    Mitel Corporation
       "Everything You Know Is Wrong"


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From: [e-mail] (Mike Harris)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: reasons for NASA disclosure
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jun 92 18:35:34 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:

|> in order to build it.  I believe that this is why, those ships flying in pairs
|> over California to Nevada, created so much noise that they set off the
|> seismographs at the edge of California.

    The ones that detect that CA is falling into the ocean?
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Harris)
Subject: Re: UFO video from NASA - The CAMERA was moving!
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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 18:40:59 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:

|> No, this is the first mention of a "beam" I've seen.  There was no beam.
|> It was an object, similar to the first object.  It appears to lift off
|> from earth and rapidly accelerate to cross the path of the first object
|> about 0.5 sec. after the first object changes directions.

    I have connections and they told me over a few beers that they
    were trying to shoot down the ship. 'said they almost shot down
    the shuttle in their haste. Good thing they didn't.
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Keywords: Rolf (Billys' Brother) Meier
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 06:23:29 GMT
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Rolf, [you write]:

>>You idiots.  If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you
>>just get closer to where you think it appears.

>>By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are
>>pointed directly at you.  When they are turned off, you see the
>>filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds).  This is followed
>>by the normal red and green marker lights.

>>Can you say temperature inversion?  In other words, the actual
>>object you are seeing may be below the horizon.

>>When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't
>>prove anything.

_______________________________________________________________________
>>Rolf Meier                    Mitel Corporation
>>       "Everything You Know Is Wrong"



Is it difficult to type from the position you are in ? I think if you relax
your colon just a bit,there still may be a bit of chance (although very remote)
to release your cranium (& the marbles contained within) from any further damage. X X                               ||
         ^                                ||
        /-\                               ||
                          ||
                             \/
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Mike.Keithly
From: [e-mail] (Mike Keithly)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien/u.s. Gov't Collusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 05:45:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/605.0 - MICAP(sm) Net, Littleton CO
Lines: 285


 > From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
 > Date: 18 Jun 92 19:54:58 GMT
 > Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408
 > 241-9760 guest)
 > Message-ID: <f9kl-=#[e-mail]>
 > Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
 Anson I posted this same article sometime ago and the results and flames were devastating.  Watch it..
                    Mike Keithly


 > Below is the text of a flyer someone sent me detailing the
 > latest alien/
 > U.S. government collusion theory.  It is apparently a
 > compilation of Bill
 > Coooper's stuff with a few Lear tidbits thrown in for spice.
 > The flyer
 > itself did not name the original source for this stuff, so if
 > anyone has
 > info on just *who* put out this flyer, I'd appreciate it if
 > you'd let me
 > know.

 > BEGIN FLYER

 >         THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM

 >         THE COMING "OFFICIAL" ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE ALIEN
 >                         PRESENCE ON EARTH

 >      WHY "STAR WARS", THE HUBBEL [sic] SPACE TELESCOPE, THE
 >                     SUDDEN FALL OF COMMUNISM?

 >      WHAT IS GOING ON?  Something very SINISTER is going on.
 >      Polls  reveal  that  over  90%  of  the American people
 >      believe in  UFOs and  95% of  these people  believe the
 >      government is keeping  this knowledge from  the public.
 >      But why?  Are they  afraid the people will panic  if an
 >      "official"  announcement  were  made?    Hardly.   Such
 >      announcement would create  interest and excitement  and
 >      many questions, particularly  by the churches,  but not
 >      panic.  Why then the continued cover-up?

 >      There  is  overwhelming  evidence  in  the past several
 >      years   from   "whistle-blowers"   -  retired  military
 >      officers  who  have  finally  said,  "Enough is enough!
 >      It's time  the government  told the  people the truth!"
 >      These  officers,  such  as  Navy  intelligence officer,
 >      William Cooper, Major  John Lear (whose  father founded
 >      the  Lear-Jet  Corp.)  and  Air  Force  officer William
 >      English, to  name but  a few,  have all  discovered the
 >      truth, and at the risk of their very lives, are  trying
 >      to alert  YOU to  the secrets  behind the  UFOs and the
 >      Alien Presence on this  earth.  These people  worked on
 >      secret projects, had access to 'classified' Top  Secret
 >      documents,  had  seen  with  their  own eyes 'captured'
 >      aliens,  or  extraterrestrial  entities,  UFOs  and the
 >      incredible technology they brought with them.

 >      Sightings of 'UFOs' (unidentified flying objects)  have
 >      been  reported  throughout  history,  and  biblical and
 >      historic references to  "flaming chariots" huge  flying
 >      'birds' and odd-looking  beings predate our  history by
 >      thousands  of  years.    In  the  1940s  several  alien
 >      spacecraft  were  recovered  by  the  U.S.  and   other
 >      countries, along with  a few dead  aliens and one  live
 >      one they named  EBE (a name  suggested by Dr.  Vannever
 >      Bush  and  was  short  for  Extraterrestrial Biological
 >      Entity).

 >      In 1953 astronomers  discovered large objects  in space
 >      which were moving toward Earth.  At first they believed
 >      these  were  asteroids,  but  later evidence proved the
 >      objects could  only be  spaceships.   Project Sigma and
 >      Project Plato intercepted radio communication and using
 >      the computer  binary language,  was able  to arrange  a
 >      landing  that  resulted  in  face-to-face  contact with
 >      alien beings from another planet.  Meanwhile, a race of
 >      human-looking  aliens  contacted  the  U.S. Government,
 >      warning us  that the  aliens orbiting  the equator were
 >      hostile  beings  from  Orion.   These human-type aliens
 >      demanded we dismantle and destroy our nuclear  weapons,
 >      that we were on a path of self-destruction and we  must
 >      stop killing each other, stop polluting the earth, stop
 >      raping the earth's natural resources and learn to  live
 >      in  harmony  with  one  another.   President Eisenhower
 >      rejected these demands.

 >      Later in 1954 the race of aliens, known as Greys,  from
 >      Zeta Reticuli area in space, who had been orbiting  the
 >      equator,  landed  at  Holloman  Air  Force  Base.  They
 >      stated their planet was dying and they needed  quarters
 >      on  earth  to  conduct  genetic  experiments that might
 >      allow  their  race  to  survive;  this  in exchange for
 >      certain  technology.    They  could  abduct humans on a
 >      limited basis  for the  purpose of  medical examination
 >      and monitoring,  with the  stipulation that  the humans
 >      would not be harmed,  would be returned to  their point
 >      of abduction, that  the human would  have no memory  of
 >      the event.  It was  also agreed that alien bases  would
 >      be constructed underground, beneath Indian reservations
 >      in the 4 corners area of Utah, New Mexico, Arizona  and
 >      Colorado.  Another was  to be constructed in  Nevada in
 >      the area known as S-4, about 7 miles south of Area  51,
 >      known as  'Dreamland.'   A multi-billion  dollar secret
 >      fund was organized and  kept by the Military  Office of
 >      the White House, supposedly to build secret underground
 >      sites for the President  and staff in case  of military
 >      attacks.

 >      By secret  Executive Memorandum,  NSC 5410,  Eisenhower
 >      established a  permanent committee  known as  "Majority
 >      Twelve"  (MJ-12)  to  oversee  and  conduct  all covert
 >      activities with the aliens.  This included FBI director
 >      J.  Edgar  Hoover  and  six  leaders of the 'Council on
 >      Foreign Relations,  known as  the 'Wise  Men' and later
 >      others from  the Trilateral  Commission.   George Bush,
 >      Gordon Dean, and Brzezinski were among them.

 >      A major finding of  the commission was the  aliens were
 >      using  humans  and  animals  for  a source of glandular
 >      secretions, enzymes, hormonal secretions, blood and  in
 >      horrible  genetic  experiments.    The aliens explained
 >      these actions as necessary for their survival, that  if
 >      their genetic structure  were not improved,  their race
 >      would cease to exist.

 >      The ruling powers decided that one means of funding the
 >      alien project was to corner the illegal drug market.  A
 >      young  ambitious  member  of  the  Council  on  Foreign
 >      Relations was approached.  His name is George Bush  who
 >      at the  time was  president and  CEO of  Zapata Oil Co.
 >      based  in  Texas.    Zapata  Oil was experimenting with
 >      offshore  oil  drilling  and  it  was arranged that the
 >      drugs  could  be  shipped  from  South  America  to the
 >      offshore platforms by  fishing boats, then  transferred
 >      to  the  U.S.  shore  by  normal  transportation,  thus
 >      avoiding search  by customs  agents.   The plan  worked
 >      better than anyone expected, and today the CIA controls
 >      all  the  world's  illegal  drug  markets.   One should
 >      remember, it was George Bush who first started  selling
 >      drugs to  our children.   The  drug money  was used  to
 >      finance the deep underground alien bases.

 >      Conclusions:  the Bilderburgers, the Council on Foreign
 >      Relations and the Trilateral Commission are the  SECRET
 >      GOVERNMENT and rule this  nation through MJ-12 and  the
 >      study group known as the Jason Society.

 >      Throughout history the  aliens have manipulated  and/or
 >      ruled the human race through various secret  societies,
 >      religion and the  occult.  The  CFR and the  Trilateral
 >      Commission  are  in  complete  control  of  the   alien
 >      technology and  the nation's  economy.   Eisenhower was
 >      the last president to  know the entire overview  of the
 >      alien problem.   Succeeding  presidents were  told only
 >      what MJ-12  wanted them  to know,  and it  was NOT  the
 >      truth.    MJ-12  presented  each  new  president with a
 >      picture  of  a  lost  alien  culture  seeking  to renew
 >      itself, build a home on this planet and shower us  with
 >      gifts of technology.   Each president bought the  story
 >      hook,  line  and  sinker.    Meanwhile  innocent people
 >      continue to suffer unspeakable horrors at the hands  of
 >      alien and human scientists who are engaged in barbarous
 >      research that would make the Nazis pale in  comparison.
 >      As if that is not enough many people end up as food for
 >      the insatiable alien  appetite for biological  enzymes,
 >      hormonal secretions and blood.  At least 1 in every  40
 >      Americans have been  implanted with alien  devices that
 >      are used to control them if necessity calls.

 >      By 1989 over 3 million 'Greys' are occupying these deep
 >      multi-level underground complexes.  Level 7 at Dulce is
 >      called "Nightmare  Hall."   They have  welched on their
 >      agreement on  abducting humans;  today over  25 million
 >      citizens have  been abducted  and implanted,  a literal
 >      army awaiting orders to  march!  (Whitley Strieber  has
 >      written bestselling books on his personal experience as
 >      have many others).  For this reason other nations  were
 >      informed.    Within  5  months  the  communist monolith
 >      Russia was dismantled  to unite with  the U.S. and  its
 >      technology to  fight the  invasion.   The Hubbel  [sic]
 >      Space Telescope was created  to keep a watchful  eye on
 >      the  invasion  fleet;  Star  Wars  technology  has been
 >      developed to hopefully stop them in outer space  before
 >      they can get to the earth.

 >      Today, the  government is  on the  horns of  a dilemma.
 >      Too many sources are releasing alien information.   The
 >      public could get angry at continued secrecy.  So  MJ-12
 >      plans soon  to make  an "official"  announcement, under
 >      controlled conditions,  probably Area  51.   Network TV
 >      will  be  called  to  meet  the staged 'landing' of the
 >      aliens, these being the Greys.  They will come  bearing
 >      gifts, technology that supposedly will heal cancer  and
 >      AIDS, retard aging,  etc.  They  will tell us  they are
 >      the 'saviors of humanity'  who have come to  defend the
 >      earth against an  invasion of man-eating  aliens called
 >      Reptoids.  This story is  a LIE, they already work  for
 >      the Reptoids!  Their plan is to unify the world into  a
 >      One-World-Government,  a  'New  World  Order'  with the
 >      argument  that  only  this  can  defeat the invasion by
 >      Reptoids.    This  is  a  trap  to  enslave the world's
 >      population.  Control  will be accomplished  through the
 >      money  system,  a  universal  currency  controlled   by
 >      certain international bankers, who for years have  been
 >      lackeys of the aliens, who seized upon their greed  and
 >      lust for  wealth and  power as  a means  to bring about
 >      their evil plan to control the earth.  (This also being
 >      the  scenario  predicted   in  the  Bible's   'Book  of
 >      Revelation'  [sic]  wherein  only  those who accept the
 >      Mark of the Beast  (the aliens'being [sic] the  'Beast'
 >      and  the  'Mark'  being  some  sort  of laser tattoo or
 >      Credit Card they will  use, which will allow  people to
 >      buy and  sell goods).   Those  who do  not accept  this
 >      'Mark' must live outside  the money system and  survive
 >      somehow on their own, through barter etc.

 >      SO BE AWARE!  ONLY YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS FAKE INVASION
 >      AND FAKE RAPTURE CAN PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING.  DEMAND
 >      THE TRUTH  FROM YOUR  GOVERNMENT.   TELL THEM  YOU KNOW
 >      ABOUT THE ALIENS AND THAT THERE ARE GOOD ALIENS AND BAD
 >      ALIENS AND THAT MJ-12  IS PROMOTING THE BAD  ALIENS AND
 >      THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT THEY HOPE TO CONTROL.

 >      INSIST ON THE TRUE STORY  OF THE ALIEN PRESENCE!   YOUR
 >      LIFE COULD DEPEND UPON IT, AS WELL AS YOUR FREEDOMS!

 >            FOR FURTHER RESEARCH AND MORE INFORMATION:

 >      Arcturus Book Service: PO Box 83183, Stone Mt., GA 30083
 >      (Specialists in UFO books and magazines, tapes, videos)

 >      WorldWide UFO News Clipping Bureau & Public Information
 >      Center, 955 Lancaster Rd. Suite 420, Orlando, FL 32809
 >      (Tapes, videos etc. on UFOs and Alien Presence)

 >      C.A.C. Box 115, Olympia,  Wa [sic] 98507 (Cosmic
 > Newsletter
 >      with much information on UFOs and Alien Presence)

 >      The William Cooper Foundation, 19744 Beach Blvd. No. 301
 >      Huntington Beach, Cal. 92648. Phone: [phone]

 >      Stanley K. Barrington, 2059 East Ave. I, Sp. 11,
 > Lancaster,
 >      CA 93535



 >      BOOKS: An Alien Harvest, by Linda Moulton Howe, PO Box
 > 3130,
 >      Littleton, CO 80161 (Secret of the cattle mutilations)

 >      The Gulf Breeze Sightings, by  Ed Walters, Wm. Morrow &
 > Co.
 >      Pub.

 >      The Watchers, by Raymond Fowler, Bantam Books, N.Y.

 >      Communion, by Whitley Strieber, Wm. Morrow Pub. N.Y.

 >      Ask your local bookstore!

 >             CIRCULATE THIS INFORMATION, MAKE 30 COPIES!

 > --

 > Anson Kennedy
 > Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I
 > speak for them!)

 >                   "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have
 > said 'No.'"
 >                                       -Margaret "Stevie" Smith
 > (1902-1971)

 > --- ConfMail V4.00
 >  * Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's leading UFO Investigative
 > News Network (1:30163/150)

--
Mike Keithly - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pilchuck!ssc!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: LASER NOT LASAR
Keywords: Aurora
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1992 05:03:34 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
> I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday.
> I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles
> that I was to write for some newspapers.  These articles are about the UFO
> controversy.  Anyways,  I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the
> shuttle.  He said, no.
>
>  As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know
> what it was that shot up...a lasar."  I said, "A lasar?  How do you know that?"
> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space.  I've seen actual
> footage of it.  Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them
> making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it."
>
> I thought this was interesting.  So I did some research.
>
> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!!

     A 20 Gw LASER maybe, but LASAR never...

     L)ight
     A)mplification by
     S)timulated
     E)mission of
     R)adiation

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6548 sci.skeptic:26140 alt.paranormal:5317
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uchinews!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References: <[e-mail]> <12070@rehder>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 92 22:21:55 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <12070@rehder>, [e-mail] (Rolf Meier) writes:
|> You idiots.  If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you
|> just get closer to where you think it appears.
|>
|> By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are
|> pointed directly at you.  When they are turned off, you see the
|> filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds).  This is followed
|> by the normal red and green marker lights.
|>
|> Can you say temperature inversion?  In other words, the actual
|> object you are seeing may be below the horizon.

Ok, I'll bite...How can you see an object below the horizon?  And what the heck is
temperature inversion, and what does it have to do with my first question?

|>
|> When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't
|> prove anything.
|>
|> _______________________________________________________________________
|> Rolf Meier                    Mitel Corporation
|>        "Everything You Know Is Wrong"
|>
|>
Brick
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Date: 21 Jun 92 09:08:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 21

[e-mail](Robert Sheaffer) 19Jun92 174121GMT types
As the only representitive of skeptic-dom

Well are you going to blab all on any wild & wolly doings down(or is
that up) at MIT?
What would happen if you did tell all you know of the closed door doings?.
I read it was done the way it was to protect possible loss of jobs of
attendees.If so would that be appropro or would the civil liberties
brigade & all be pouncing on employees for unconstitutional actions?.

Well if your skeptical of these requirements did you confront Pritchard
& Co for a thoroughful explanation or would that be beyond the pale?.

& what about those proceedings?.When & where are they due?.

*********************************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?
****************************************************

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6550 sci.skeptic:26141 alt.paranormal:5318
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Keywords: Rolf (Billys' Brother) Meier
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 22:25:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <12070@rehder> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
|>
|> Rolf, [you write]:
|>
|> >>You idiots.  If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you
|> >>just get closer to where you think it appears.
|>
|> >>By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are
|> >>pointed directly at you.  When they are turned off, you see the
|> >>filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds).  This is followed
|> >>by the normal red and green marker lights.
|>
|> >>Can you say temperature inversion?  In other words, the actual
|> >>object you are seeing may be below the horizon.
|>
|> >>When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't
|> >>prove anything.
|>
|> _______________________________________________________________________
|> >>Rolf Meier                    Mitel Corporation
|> >>       "Everything You Know Is Wrong"
|>
|>
|>
|> Is it difficult to type from the position you are in ? I think if you relax
|> your colon just a bit,there still may be a bit of chance (although very remote)
|> to release your cranium (& the marbles contained within) from any further damage. X X                               ||
|>          ^                                ||
|>         /-\                               ||
|>                           ||
|>                              \/
|> Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|> Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
|> [e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
|>                  |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|>
|>
ha ha ha ha ha

toooo funny!
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jun 92 22:31:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Dinse) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> > I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday.
|> > I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles
|> > that I was to write for some newspapers.  These articles are about the UFO
|> > controversy.  Anyways,  I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the
|> > shuttle.  He said, no.
|> >
|> >  As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know
|> > what it was that shot up...a lasar."  I said, "A lasar?  How do you know that?"
|> > He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space.  I've seen actual
|> > footage of it.  Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them
|> > making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it."
|> >
|> > I thought this was interesting.  So I did some research.
|> >
|> > At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!!
|>
|>      A 20 Gw LASER maybe, but LASAR never...
|>
|>      L)ight
|>      A)mplification by
|>      S)timulated
|>      E)mission of
|>      R)adiation
|>


What a idiot,  I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the spelling up
every time...  Don't ask me how.

Brick
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jmd9888
From: [e-mail] (Michael Durham)
Subject: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Sender: [e-mail] (DURHAM, JAMES MICHAEL)
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 02:45:00 GMT
Lines: 12

Before I ask I would like every one to know that I have read quite a few books
on the Roswell case so please dont tell me anymore books that I should read.
This is a request for people doing any independent study, and would like to
share any of their findings with me.

The second part of this request is for anyone knowing how I can get a hold of
any documents that Washington has put out on this...ie. the ones from the
freedom of information act.

Thanks in advance
Michael

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 92 03:13:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Aurora
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
>
>What a idiot,  I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the
>spelling up
>every time...  Don't ask me how.
>
>Brick


It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my
sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not
allow for this.

The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am
asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns.

When I gain some confidence in Windows or OS2, and buy one, this may not
be a problem. Better yet, when Sun releases S5V4 for DOS, I may buy that.
But like the 64K max for postings, it is a better idea to post in a format
that the general audience can display.

Please do not take this as a flame.

Rich

[e-mail]


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh
From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Aurora
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 16:06:23 GMT
Lines: 6

(His persistent use of the "word" LASAR)
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
>What a idiot,  I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the spelling up
>every time...  Don't ask me how.

Have you encountered your future self engaged in time travel lately?
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Jun 92 18:13:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: xuucp.9206211832.AA06663
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 30


 From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)

>>>You idiots.  If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you
>>>just get closer to where you think it appears.
>
>>>When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't
>>>prove anything.
>
>Is it difficult to type from the position you are in ? I think if you relax
>your colon just a bit,there still may be a bit of chance (although very remote)
>to release your cranium (& the marbles contained within) from any further damage. X X                               ||

  OK, OK, so Mr. Meier's choice of words were regrettably inflammatory
  but he DID raise some legitimate points which neither Mr. Beckwith nor
  anyone else has addressed.


  1.  Lights in the sky DON'T mean anything.  They don't even qualify
      this sighting as a UFO sighting, since the "O" in UFO stands for
      "object", and no "object" was seen.

  2.  Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they triangulate it
      to see where it was located?

  3.  Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they try to get closer
      to it?


---peter
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!iWarp.intel.com|imutm1.de.intel.com!gold.sub.org!roger
From: [e-mail] (Roger Neumann)
Subject: REQUEST: UFO GIF's
Sender: [e-mail] (Waffle Login)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 20:33:57 GMT
Organization: Unix Mailbox Baldham
Lines: 12

Hello World!

Can anyone send me UFO Gif's or related "objects"

Yours
                 Roger
--------------------------------------------------


--
[e-mail] (Roger Neumann)
Unix Mailbox Baldham    08106-34593 PEP/V.32    08106-34692 HST
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!<UNAUTHENTICATED>+
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 08:49:42 -0400
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 22


One of the investigatory news programs (Primetime Live, 20/20 - I can't recall
which) did a piece on Pork barrel spending.  One of the projects mentioned
was a laser aimed up at the sky - its purpose was to attempt to extract
energy from the magnetic field associated with the aurora borealis - hence
the project name AURORA.

Whether the powers that be actually named the project AURORA is, of course,
conjecture - but it apparently exists.

Chris

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Chris Hendy            | Gulf Tower           | Internet: [e-mail]
  DBA-DataBase Anarchist | 707 Grant Street     | Voice:       [phone]
  Transarc Corporation   | Pittsburgh PA  15219 | FAX:         [phone]
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 It would be like a man, dying of thirst in the desert, begging for water
 and getting an increase in humidity in reply.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!peora!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee conference
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 02:44:40 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Abductee
References: <w!dld=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David M. Schiff) writes:
>>In article <w!dld=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>>The problem is, anyone attending the conference has to sign a "confidentiality
>>>agreement."
>>
>>why?
>>


>Well, for one thing, it allows certain "abductionists" to say absolutely
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>ridiculous things without being held accountable for it later!  :)
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My, my..sounds like someone else we know who spouts off about "the
camera WAS moving"...someone who judged a video without even seeing it. :-)

Are you _sure_ you're not kin to Dan "Potatoe" Quayle?? :-))

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age"
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED
UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona  | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone"
"A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free"  - Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!peora!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee conference
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 02:47:42 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Abductee
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23

>
>Does this mean that nothing like a proceedings of the conference will be
>published?
>
>Is this the way scientific research is conducted, behind closed doors away
>from critical scrutiny?
>--
>
>Anson Kennedy
>Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)
>
>                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
>                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
>

Well...there you go again Anson..you're thinking too clearly :-)


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age"
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED
UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona  | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone"
"A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free"  - Thomas Jefferson
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!news-server.ecf!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!bullet.ecf.toronto.edu!rice
From: [e-mail] (RICE  GEORGE MATTHEW)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jun 92 15:36:25 GMT
Expires: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 04:00:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Lines: 4

If the purpose of this conference was as you say 'to share information'
then why don't you do just that.

Matthew
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 22 JUN 92 11:54:11
Lines: 18


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes...
>It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my
>sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not
>allow for this.
>
>The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am
>asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns.
>
>Please do not take this as a flame.
>
>Rich

While we're at it, the number of people replying to 100-line posts and quoting
the whole bloody 100 lines is beginning to get annoying. If I don't see
anything new after about the 3rd screenfull, it's "n" time...

-Tom R.   milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 22 JUN 92 12:00:11
Lines: 21


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>
>  1.  Lights in the sky DON'T mean anything.  They don't even qualify
>      this sighting as a UFO sighting, since the "O" in UFO stands for
>      "object", and no "object" was seen.
>
>  2.  Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they triangulate it
>      to see where it was located?
>
>  3.  Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they try to get closer
>      to it?
>
>---peter

   4.  Why don't they set up some high power telescopes, if possible with image
       intensifiers and cameras attached. Video tape is nice, but too
       low-resoultion to be of much use in proving or disproving anything. By
       high power I mean focal length of 1000mm or more.

-Tom R.   milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: New Poll
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Poll
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 17:13:43 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 64

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>Here is a more all inclusive poll, thanks to some of your suggestions.
        [...]
>1) Believe UFO's exist, and are vistiting and abducting.
>
>2) Believe UFO's exist, and are visiting.
        [...]

You need to stop using this implicite equation that says UFO==flying
saucer.  Everyone involved in aviation believes in UFOs.  UFOs are
just flying objects that for any reason cannot be identified.  This
happens all of the time and has nothing to do with flying saucers.

If you want questions that makes a little more sense, try something
like this:

1) Believe that some UFO's are caused by non-human intelligent
   creatures that sometimes visit and abduct humans.

2) Believe that some UFO's are caused by non-human intelligent
   creatures that sometimes visit humans (but don't abduct).

3) Believe that extraterrestrial intelligent creatures exist
   somewhere, but they aren't visiting earth.

...

8) Tend to not believe in non-human intelligent creatures that
   sometimes visit humans, even though uninformed.

9) Do not believe in non-human intelligent creatures that
   sometimes visit humans, and am informed.

etc.

Here are some other questions you should try, to better classify your
believers:

You believe that some UFO's are caused by non-human intelligent
creatures that sometimes visit humans, and you also:

12) Believe that the intelligent creatures are extraterrestrials
    (this is the plain vanilla ET theory).

13) Believe that the intelligent creatures are native to earth (or an
    alternate earth in another dimension), but hide somehow, either
    underground, or through some "interdimensional" travel (this is
    the fairies and elves theory).

14) Believe that the intelligent creatures are real, but are
    non-corporal (like ghosts).  They may be good, bad, or in between
    (this is the newage ascended masters theory).

15) Believe that the intelligent creatures are real, are
    non-corporal, and are maleavalent.  The extraterrestrial elements
    of visitations are deliberate deceptions by creatures best
    described as "demons" (this is the religious theory).

Check all that apply.
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10478 alt.alien.visitors:6572 sci.skeptic:26196
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 10:23:54 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

I spelled encourage with an i (incourage).  Sorry about that.


John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee conference
Message-ID: <h4pl=[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:02:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: Abductee
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 29

[e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:

[Quote of my cogent and succinct criticism of the secrecy surrounding
 the "Abduction Study Confernce AT MIT" (but NOT sponsored BY MIT) deleted...]

>Well...there you go again Anson..you're thinking too clearly :-)

If clear thinking is a crime, then I am guilty! ;-)

But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground, then
it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages.  Every researcher
will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as much
control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's Stone
of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be).

I find it rather disgusting.  It does nothing to garner abductionists the
legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the
impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want us
to believe.

End of sermon. :-)
--

Anson Kennedy                                                   [e-mail]
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

"If you don't watch the violence,    \           "If I had been the Virgin Mary,
you'll never get desensitized to it."  \                I would have said 'No.'"
-Bart Simpson                            \  -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <!5plh![e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:28:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 53

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sutton) writes:
>[e-mail](Robert Sheaffer) 19Jun92 174121GMT types
>As the only representitive of skeptic-dom
>
>Well are you going to blab all on any wild & wolly doings down(or is
>that up) at MIT?

No, I'll wait for others to do that! I understand that process has already
started! :)


>What would happen if you did tell all you know of the closed door doings?.

They greys would come along one night to collect involuntary sperm samples.

>I read it was done the way it was to protect possible loss of jobs of
>attendees.If so would that be appropro or would the civil liberties
>brigade & all be pouncing on employees for unconstitutional actions?.

Somehow I can't believe this. Maybe some of the 'abductees' don't want
their names known, but then, they were anonymous even at the conference.
Most of the researchers' names have ALREADY appeared in many, many UFO
publications.

>
>Well if your skeptical of these requirements did you confront Pritchard
>& Co for a thoroughful explanation or would that be beyond the pale?.

Oh, I had some very nice discussions with Pritchard, although not
about the conference itself, more on 'general UFOlogy.'


>& what about those proceedings?.When & where are they due?.
>
I don't know, you'd have to ask Pritchard. It will be *at least* several
more months. I don't think that the publishing arrangements have even
been firmed up yet.


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:35:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Aurora
Lines: 34

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Dinse) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>>
>>  As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know
>> what it was that shot up...a lasar."  I said, "A lasar?  How do you know that?"
>> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space.  I've seen actual
>>
>> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!!
>
>     A 20 Gw LASER maybe, but LASAR never...
>
>     L)ight
>     A)mplification by
>     S)timulated
>     E)mission of
>     R)adiation
>

And in addition to that 20 Gw Lasar thay have one Larged-Mouthed Lazar, who
has been spewing out "secrets" of the supposed "government saucers".....
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!claris!apple!selway.umt.edu!cs000rdw
From: [e-mail] (Richard D Warner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Summary: skeptical
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jun 92 18:04:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Montana
Lines: 12


    I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet.  I've seen
footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts.  The discussion was
on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere.  There has to
be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes
the beam to get wider and loose its intensity.  Also, they won't shoot
through clouds that well.  Lastly, I want to say that wasn't a laser beam
on the video.  I wish more people had seen it first hand.  For one, you
wouldn't be able to see a laser beam going through vacant space, and for
another, it wasn't a beam at all - it was closer to a high-speed comet.

Rich
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Aurora
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 22:19:12 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard D Warner) writes:
>
>    I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet.  I've seen
>footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts.  The discussion was
>on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere.  There has to
>be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes

Yes, but there are some approaches that have mitigated this effect.
One approach is to pulse the beam in synchronization with the expansion
of the air.  I don't know the details of how this was done, but I
remember that there was an increase in the density of energy that could
successfully be transmitted through the atmosphere when the beam was
pulsed at the correct frequency.

As far as using lasers for weapons, at least one missile has been shot down
with a laser.  I remember reading the article describing the test back
when I was a research assistant for the SDI lab at UTA (~5 years ago).
The article talked about defenses against lasers such as using reflective
coatings and spinning the missile rapidly to diffuse the heat over a larger
area.  The counter tactic was to make the pulses shorter and more energetic.

--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 16:00:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <1992Jun18.101508.10278@anasaz>
Lines: 3

If all goes well I hope to post something from a person called
Shaari about crop circles.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 16:13:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

While I was in the Press and Speakers line  to sign up for the Whole
Life Expo this summer Stanton Freedman was in front of me.  I had done
an interview with him before and he was going to do his talk that he
normally does at these shows. We exchanged a few words and in his
introductory lecture he was talking  about his Roswell investigations.
He plans to bring out a book on that subject this summer.  If a person
really is serious about this subject he should talk with Harley Byrd the
nephew of Admiral Byrds the famous explorer.  Harley was in the service
at the time and saw the bodies and investigated the crash for the
government.
I video taped a conversation with Mr. H. Byrd hast summer.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (J. Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re^2: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jun 92 17:41:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: tellab5.1992Jun22.174147.6563
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Huh?
Lines: 8
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski) writes:
>...
>I would suggest a field trip consisting of, perhaps, Maccabee, Greer,
>Klass and Overall. (And maybe a referee!) ...

Alright, I'll volunteer to ref, but I get to bring my 9mm with me -).
--
                [e-mail]
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!cluster!swift!peg!qolight
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Repor
Message-ID: <422800031@peg>
Date: 23 Jun 92 05:34:00 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]>
Lines: 13
Nf-ID: #R:[e-mail]:-1070470575:peg:422800031:000:419
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!qolight    Jun 23 00:34:00 1992


Hello Chris Rutkowski....

Look bloke...it would be great for you to reply to the original
msg... YET...do you have to "qoute" the enitre message?  It get's
really boring not to mention the extra on-line time we have to pay
for when any of you blokes go about taking out everyline of the
msg or msg's in the thread....

SUGGESTION....LET'S CUT OUT THE REDUNDANT BIT'S AND MOVE ON!!!


Regards...(No Fancy sig's) Photon
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 02:11:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|> >
|> >What a idiot,  I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the
|> >spelling up
|> >every time...  Don't ask me how.
|> >
|> >Brick
|>
|>
|> It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my
|> sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not
|> allow for this.
|>
|> The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am
|> asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns.
|>
|> When I gain some confidence in Windows or OS2, and buy one, this may not
|> be a problem. Better yet, when Sun releases S5V4 for DOS, I may buy that.
|> But like the 64K max for postings, it is a better idea to post in a format
|> that the general audience can display.
|>
|> Please do not take this as a flame.
|>
|> Rich
|>
|> [e-mail]
|>
|>
Sorry.  It's just the program that I use for News.  It is an X-windows
environment and it automatically linefeeds.  Apparently, it actually doesn't place
a line feed char in the text though..eh?

Anyone else using "xrn" have this problem?

Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 02:14:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
|> (His persistent use of the "word" LASAR)
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|> >What a idiot,  I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the spelling up
|> >every time...  Don't ask me how.
|>
|> Have you encountered your future self engaged in time travel lately?


Yeah, that must be it...I shot myself in the head in the future and now in the
past I am having problems....or something like that.
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 02:23:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>
|> One of the investigatory news programs (Primetime Live, 20/20 - I can't recall
|> which) did a piece on Pork barrel spending.  One of the projects mentioned
|> was a laser aimed up at the sky - its purpose was to attempt to extract
|> energy from the magnetic field associated with the aurora borealis - hence
|> the project name AURORA.
|>
|> Whether the powers that be actually named the project AURORA is, of course,
|> conjecture - but it apparently exists.
|>
|> Chris
|>
|>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|>   Chris Hendy            | Gulf Tower           | Internet: [e-mail]
|>   DBA-DataBase Anarchist | 707 Grant Street     | Voice:       [phone]
|>   Transarc Corporation   | Pittsburgh PA  15219 | FAX:         [phone]
|>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|>  It would be like a man, dying of thirst in the desert, begging for water
|>  and getting an increase in humidity in reply.
|>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|>
|>

I'm no expert in Laser's, but how the heck can you  extract energy with a laser?

How can you "suck up energy" with a beam of light that "shoots out energy"?

Anyone a laser expert out there?

Could a 10 Gw laser actually have enough energy to destroy something in the
atmosphere?

I know that 10 billion of anything could destroy anything.  :)

Brick
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve
From: [e-mail] (Steve Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 03:29:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group
Lines: 15

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:


>One of the investigatory news programs (Primetime Live, 20/20 - I can't recall
>which) did a piece on Pork barrel spending.  One of the projects mentioned
>was a laser aimed up at the sky - its purpose was to attempt to extract
>energy from the magnetic field associated with the aurora borealis - hence
>the project name AURORA.

A giant laser to suck energy out of the earths magnetic field? This *must*
be alt.alien.visitors!



                            Steve
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26229 alt.alien.visitors:6586
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:   <f9kl-=#[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1992 13:29:07 GMT
Lines: 28


In article <f9kl-=#[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes...
>Below is the text of a flyer someone sent me detailing the latest alien/
>U.S. government collusion theory.  It is apparently a compilation of Bill
>Coooper's stuff with a few Lear tidbits thrown in for spice.  The flyer
>itself did not name the original source for this stuff, so if anyone has
>info on just *who* put out this flyer, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me
>know.
>
>BEGIN FLYER
>
>        THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM
>

        ....[drival deleted]....

        Big YAWN!

        The paranoic  level  of  this  posting  is  so great that I would
        have to believe that Gary Stollman posted this.

        Hey Gary when  are  you going to repost your INVASION note again.

        With the exception of the above drival this file is getting dry.

        Steve  Food_for_the_Greys


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 08:54:56 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services
Lines: 51


>
>    I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet.  I've seen
>footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts.  The discussion was
>on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere.  There has to
>be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes

There is a laser sitting at Los Alimos (sp?) called 'SHIVA'. It is three HUGE
CO2 lasers pulsed together that produces 24 terawatts (That's trillion guys,
not billion) ! ! It produces this amount of power over a period of about 40
nanoseconds (40 billionths of a second) It's original purpose was to research
fusion reactions. I have also heard of tabletop (large table ;-) Exicmer lasers
that produce pulsed gigawatt beams. However, to date the largest CW laser,
which again is a CO2, produces about 100KW. Lasers for weaponry though is
another story. People think of a laser, they tend to imagine good guys and bad
guys duking it out in little spaceships in a galaxie far, far away, thanks to
the over imaginitive movie producers. Real lasers are far less destructive. It
is true that the military has produced a laser that could be used as a missile
killer (a hydrogen-floride dynamic gas laser) and it is small enough to fit
into a converted KC-135. But one big problem exist with using lasers in the
atmosphere. The beam is dispersed by particles (I.E., smoke, water, dust, ect.)
as it fired from the laser head. The effective range is reduced the further the
beam goes. In space, they would be ideal, as nothing is in the way to attenuate
the beam, which is why the SDI guy's thought they would make good weapons. But
a high powered laser is a power hog. One mode of thought that was going around
the SDI circles for a while was using a particle beam/laser beam combination.
The idea was to fire a powerful particle beam through the atmosphere then
follow it a few nanoseconds later by a powerful laser beam. The idea was that
the particle beam would blast a hole for the laser beam. Good idea, except for
one small problem. Power ! ! The particle beam would take an accelerator that
would produce several TEV (Trillion Electron Volts) and would be huge. Next,
the laser would also be huge. The optics and boresighting of the laser to the
particle beam was an engineering nightmare. Cost was another big factor.
Either device, the particle beam or the laser, was considered a weapon in it's
own right because of the power they produced. But what is on the drawing boards
in some little secret SDI lab and may even be working isn't know by the general
public, so I think it may be possible that they have overcome the engineering
problems with VERY large lasers. One canidate is the X-ray laser. Yes, such a
device does exist, but most of the design of it the military classified. But it
is general knowledge in laser circles that one way to build an X-ray laser was
to use a hydrogen bomb as the laser pump. By running the laser cavity around
the inside of a hydrogen bomb, when it exploded, the radiation produced by it,
gamma and X-rays, would be focused through the cavity and produce an
increadeably powerful laser beam, for about a trillionth of a second, before it
was vaporized. Not very cost effective though ;-) So the designers went on to
more conservitive means of producing it. I wish I could get my hands on the
info of how they are planning to do it now, but no such luck. But lasers can do
some pretty amazing things and don't be to surprised at what may lurk behind
some secret lab's door ;-)

-=-=- Wes =-=-=
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Miller Lite Aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jun 92 10:34:15 GMT
Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana
Lines: 12

A new Miller Lite Beer commercial shows a house and a dog.  A cooler opens
and cans of beer fly out the door and into a field.  The dog follows.  In
the field are TONS of 'near-grey' aliens, all dancing and drinking Miller
Lite beer... some with 'wigs' and 'clothes'.

At the end of the commerical, a B&W shot of a cameraman talking about the
'new crop circles' which appears to be the word 'Lite' spelled out in a
field, by the 'greys'.

Are we getting this close to the 'invasion'? :-)

--
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...)
Date: 22 Jun 1992 03:15:06 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 68
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

This is a partial summary of the meeting of 06/20/92 at the Berkeley
Conference Center in Berkeley, California, sponsored by the 2020 Group.
There were perhaps 100 attendees.

The first part of the meeting, from about 10:00 AM to about 1:30 PM,
was a summary of the UFO subject, including much of the reported
material on things like Roswell, alien abductions, etc. Reasonably well
done.

Most of the new material consisted of audiotapes of interviews with
witnesses who were not identified but who sounded convincing, about the
involvement of relatives in government coverup of its relationship and
activities involving UFOs and aliens. The first was with the alleged
"husband of the daughter-in-law of a recently deceased high NASA
official", both of whom were not identified.

There was a reference to the son of Gen. Nathan Twining perhaps
offering testimony in the future to the effect that his father was on
the scene at Roswell and had a direct telepathic contact with one of
the injured aliens.

The most riveting testimony was provided by a young lady named Wendy
(last name withheld), who reported that she had had repeated visits
from aliens in her home, and that after she attempted to report this
incident to government authorities, she was harassed, kidnapped,
intimidated, and drugged by what appeared to be US government military
types.

On the skeptical side one would have to point out that identities were
withheld, so that we have only verbal testimony of anonymous persons
(except for Wendy, who was physically present). No physical evidence.

One factor that I noted was that the staging of the entire event was
suspiciously like a religious revival meeting. Very polished, carefully
planned, on schedule, with fairly high production values. On the other
hand, if it were primarily a money-making scheme, then the price of
admission ($25 in advance, $35 at the door) plus revenue on books,
pamphlets, etc., were hardly enough to do much more than cover costs,
which speaks to the credibility of the sponsors. Could this be a way to
hook followers for future fleecing? Any such effort should be
approached with some skepticism, although nothing in the messages
offered were particularly extreme or on the fringe as UFO gatherings
go, unless you would consider all suggestions of government collusion
with aliens for no good purpose to be such.

The basic message, that there may be a sinister conspiracy of an
international elite against the bulk of humanity, somehow involving
aliens, and that we (the non-elite) need to "take back our world" sound
disturbingly like the exhortations of revolutionaries who want to use
popular discontent to seize power (and then perhaps abuse it
themselves).

Of course, they may also be right, and entirely well-intentioned. What
speaks well of them is the way they encouraged members of the audience
to act indepenently of them to uncover the truth and take back control
of the reins of power. A common ploy of revolutionaries, but also what
one would expect of sincere reformers.

Interesting, but like so much else in this field, disturbingly elusive
and insubstantial.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Date: 22 Jun 1992 04:10:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 80
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Gerry Roston) writes:
> There is NO scientifically valid evidence, what-so-ever, to suggest
> that our planet has been visited by extra-terrestrial beings.  Does
> this mean that I believe that we are the only sentient race in the
> universe.  NO!  The two are quite unrelated.  However, I will state
> that we are probably the only sentient race within our galaxy (or
> maybe even with the local galactic cluster), because otherwise we
> should have already seen clear evidence of their presense.  Why?
> Because they might be a billion years ahead of us... plenty of time to
> have taken over all planets that are suitable to their needs.

Well, there is no publicly-accessible evidence. That there may be
evidence that is being withheld from most of the scientific community
is one of the principal themes of this subject.

I have argued in previous postings that an abundance of spacefaring
species would not necessarily be clearly evident. Many tend to assume
without thinking that long-duration civilizations would live on the
surfaces of planets the way we do, but an analysis of the physical
requirements of survival over periods of more than a few thousand years
indicates that such civilizations would have to house themselves and
their economic activities in cities designed and operated like
multigeneration starships, compact, sealed, self-sufficient, and
probably sited underground. If they did not discover faster-than-light
propulsion, they could still explore the galaxy, or even travel to
other galaxies, in such starships, but when they arrived at planets
like ours, their economies and their cultures would favor underground
sites for their cities.

As it turns out, the best places in the Universe for life to flourish
(although not to first appear) are the interiors of planetary bodies
that contain enough radioisotopes to maintain a long-duration thermal
gradient between their molten interiors and their surfaces, not the
surfaces of planets, or asteroids in deep space. Planetary interiors
offer many advantages besides a source of long-lasting energy: protection
from radiation, from weathering and corrosion, and from the temptation
to waste scarce materials by using them in ways that risk their loss.

We need posit only one other technology to account for not seeing clear
evidence of their presence: the ability to interpenetrate matter. This
could involve some kind of cross-plane or wormhole physics, but it is
also possible that it could be done using more conventional physics
through a process I call bosonic propulsion, in which an entire vehicle
would be put into a bosonic state, like the Cooper pairs of electrons
in superconductivity, so that they could pass between their underground
cities and outer space without having to have access ports through the
ground, and, indeed, to be invisible while traveling in that mode.
Such a life-style would probably leave no trace on the surfaces of the
planets they inhabit, unless there was some side-effect like crop
circles.

We could have a million underground alien cities, each housing a
million aliens, and never know it if they chose not to reveal
themselves.  They could have been here for billions of years.

If one looks at the physics and economics of long-duration civiliza-
tions, then it becomes more difficult to explain the absence of such
underground cities than their presence.

As for why none of the alien races that might inhabit our planet choose
to reveal themselves to us, why do the passengers and crew of a cruise
ship not reveal themselves to the barnacles infesting the ship's hull.
Unless and until we become to problem to them, we are likely to be
ignored.

And that may be the hardest thing to take -- that we are simply too
insignificant to merit contact, even though we live only a few
kilometers away.

If this scenario is valid, then it hardly makes sense to call the
others "aliens" or "visitors". They have have been here a lot longer
than we have, and may call Earth home.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 19:16:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
|> This is a partial summary of the meeting of 06/20/92 at the Berkeley
|> Conference Center in Berkeley, California, sponsored by the 2020 Group.
|> There were perhaps 100 attendees.


Thanks for posting the article.

Does anyone have any more information on the 2020 group?



[...]

|> ---
|>
|> [e-mail], [e-mail]
|> Jon Roland
|> Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
|> Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
|>

--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (frost...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Summary: skeptical
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 20:38:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: apsicc.23JUN199213381790
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Lines: 41
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard D Warner) writes...
>
>    I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet.  I've seen

   Los Alamos is using Lasers of that range and so is its' cooresponding site
   in California but only in *MASSIVE* units that are being used for fusion power
   research. You can't take one of these babies out and swing it around for aiming.

>footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts.  The discussion was
>on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere.  There has to
>be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes
>the beam to get wider and loose its intensity.  Also, they won't shoot

   The cloud part I would tend to agree with for the most part but shooting up
   is a lot easier than shooting a few miles along the ground. The air going up
   gets geometrically thinner as you go higher and there is less effect on the
   beam all the time. The Sandia Labs people here in Albuquerque just anounced
   this last fall that they were using a laser to allign a multiple mirror array
   by aiming the laser along the line of sight of the mirrors and then reading
   the turbulence it indicated and making adjustments to the mirrors. The pro-
   posed use was for an SDI project to assure the best continuity of the beam.

   Incidentally, at White Sands Missle Range in New Mexico last year a laser was
   used to blow a stationary missle, which was several feet in diameter, apart.
   The footage on this made the news and was rather impressive.

>through clouds that well.  Lastly, I want to say that wasn't a laser beam
>on the video.  I wish more people had seen it first hand.  For one, you
>wouldn't be able to see a laser beam going through vacant space, and for
>another, it wasn't a beam at all - it was closer to a high-speed comet.

   On this we are in accord. The beam from any Laser capable of doing damage to
   anything would be very narrow in nature and of such short duration that it
   would be unlikely to ever show up in normal camera footage.
>
>Rich
======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    [e-mail]
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager
======================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Keywords: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 19:25:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: cellar.oH7TmB3w164w
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 22

[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail].
> >>
> >>  As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I
> >> what it was that shot up...a lasar."  I said, "A lasar?  How do you know t
> >> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space.  I've seen actual
> >>
> >> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!!
> And in addition to that 20 Gw Lasar thay have one Larged-Mouthed Lazar, who
> has been spewing out "secrets" of the supposed "government saucers".....
> --
        I also hear that they're working on a rapid-fire, mobile device to be
deployed in Hollywood. They're calling it the "Swifty" Lazar...



Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!cubtosys!news
From: Andrew Cohen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion
Organization: Cubic Toll Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 11:20:11 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
References: <f9kl-=#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: andyc.cubic.com
Lines: 16

>
>     Communion, by Whitley Strieber, Wm. Morrow Pub. N.Y.
>
My signature says it all.  As far as this _BS_ goes, sounds alot like
the miniseries "V" (isitors).  As far as Communion and Strieber go, it
seems that he always finds himself involved in the latest unprovable and
subjective scandal, as long as it sells books and movie rights.  Anyone
who cites him destroys their credibility.

Torch-On!
Cut the crap.  Show me the proof.
Torch-Off!
__________________________________________________________________________
   ____^____    So they have gray skin, big almond eyes, and little noses!
  /__/___\__\   Just remember to ask what method of propulsion they use.
_/_  \___/  _\_ If they seem hesitant, offer them some peanuts. - AJ Cohen
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Peter.David
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles in Canterby
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Peter David)
Date: 23 Jun 92 22:23:06 GMT
Organization: Infoboard BBS - Auckland - [phone] -
In-Reply-To: [e-mail] (Tom Van Flandern)
Lines: 30

TVF=8>FROM [e-mail]
TVF=8>TO All
TVF=8>[Must quote FROM address as TO: on 1st line of email replies]


TVF=8>Earlier, I wrote:

TVF=8>>> Am I describing the same picture you saw?  -|Tom|-
TVF=8>the picture with its lead story.  Thirdly, I edit a small newsletter, the
TVF=8>Meta Research Bulletin [P.O. Box 15186, Chevy Chase, MD 20815], which has
TVF=8>     I don't know anything about posting a scanned copy to a newsgroup.
TVF=8>you want to E-mail me directions, I'm willing to experiment.  -|Tom|-

TVF=8>--
TVF=8>Tom Van Flandern / Washington, DC / [e-mail]
TVF=8>Meta Research was founded to foster research into ideas not otherwise
TVF=8>supported because they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy.
 Hi Tom just thought I would mention since you do reasearch and I take
 an interest on a hobby level of this phenomonon. Do  you have anything
 on the Crop Circles that croppped up reportedly in the Canterbury area
 of New Zealand? I am in Auckland and it seems quiet here for the most
 part but I am starting to branch out. There is an author who lived here
 in the area a Bruce Cathie , a retired airline pilot who wrote a couple
 books on grid lines. I have not had a chance to touch base with him
 though its possible.Anyway if you have anything on this area I could
 research for you let me know.By for now.
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * This tagline is umop apisdn


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Peter.David
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Caution for UFO Investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Peter David)
Date: 23 Jun 92 22:38:08 GMT
Organization: Infoboard BBS - Auckland - [phone] -
In-Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Lines: 71

JR=8>FROM [e-mail]
JR=8>TO All
JR=8>[Must quote FROM address as TO: on 1st line of email replies]

JR=8>CAUTION
JR=8>for UFO Investigators

JR=8>Copyright (c) 1991 Jon Roland

JR=8>There is an old saying, "Be careful what
JR=8>you ask for. You might get it." It applies to
JR=8>UFO investigators, most of whom are
JR=8>motivated to try to find out what is behind
JR=8>what so many people are reporting by a
JR=8>mixture of curiosity, fear, and a nagging
JR=8>suspicion that we are not being told
JR=8>something that we have a right to know. The
JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the
JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is
JR=8>not being openly researched by organized,
JR=8>governmentally supported science.

JR=8>One family of hypotheses concerning this
JR=8>subject, first advanced by Charles Fort, one
JR=8>version of which I have discussed elsewhere
JR=8>(see "Speculations on UFO Technology and
JR=8>Operations"), supposes that at least one, and
JR=8>perhaps many, alien races are based in the
JR=8>vicinity of Earth, perhaps underground, and
JR=8>have been for a long time; and that lifeforms
JR=8>on the surface of Earth, including ourselves,
JR=8>are the subject of long-term study and
JR=8>perhaps experimentation by at least one of
JR=8>those races.

JR=8>The importance of this hypothesis is that, if
JR=8>valid, it could be dangerous to verify it,
JR=8>either for the investigator and his friends, or
JR=8>even for humanity as a whole.

JR=8>Much speculation on alien visitors tends to
JR=8>suppose that they are occasional visitors to
JR=8>Earth, based elsewhere, who regard us as
JR=8>less developed than themselves, but who still
JR=8>respect us as fellow sentients that may
JR=8>someday join them among the family of
JR=8>spacefaring civilizations. This may be
JR=8>wishful thinking, a projection of our
JR=8>attitudes toward primitive peoples in recent
JR=8>history. We must consider the possibility
JR=8>that they rather regard us as we regard
JR=8>laboratory rats, with little or no sympathy,
JR=8>as things which exist for their edification or
JR=8>amusement, and which they are prepared to
JR=8>manipulate or terminate when it suits their
JR=8>purposes to do so.

JR=8>If their purposes are scientific, then our
JR=8>continued existence may depend on us
JR=8>remaining interesting to their scientific
JR=8>studies.

JR=8>--- oFM v2.0
JR=8> * Origin: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre (199:310/1.0)
Well done lets hear more from you. You give this conference area a
healthy refreshing outlook with you prudence and pointed observation to
this subject. Thanks . Bye .
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Peter.Caffell
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Peter Caffell)
Date: 22 Jun 92 9:24:00 GMT
Organization: Infoboard BBS - Auckland - [phone] -
In-Reply-To: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Lines: 21



|CM>   "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed         |
|CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight  |
|CM>of 85,069 feet.  Another dashed from New York to London in less than    |
|CM>two hours.  This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990.

How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to
1981.

The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the
SR-71 taking off.

Peter.
___
X MegaMail 2.1b #0:


Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10488 sci.skeptic:26260 alt.alien.visitors:6598
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Only Lesson There Is - Pleiadians 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 19:11:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Don, I read about you starting the church called the Pleiadian Group
in our posting.  If your serious about this then I's like to join.
If your not serious and it's like Berney Ward's church on KGO called
the Church of the Holy Donut then sign me up also.  I hope it cost less
than Silvia Brown's church ($5,000).  Please put me on the list and
give me a number if you have any left.
That's all for now. John Winston.   I's should be spelled I'd.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10489 alt.alien.visitors:6599 sci.skeptic:26262
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 19:21:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Arasia I read your posting and it makes a lot of sense to me.
I put a letter in the mail to get more information from your group.
This thursday I will be having a -- --- and I will be having people
on who are aware that they lived some past lives on other planets.
We'll see how it comes out.
That's all folks. John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar
Message-ID: <7arlf!=[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 01:42:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Aurora
Lines: 45

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:

>|> It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my
>|> sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not
>|> allow for this.
>|>
>|> The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am
>|> asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns.
>|>
>|> When I gain some confidence in Windows or OS2, and buy one, this may not
>|> be a problem. Better yet, when Sun releases S5V4 for DOS, I may buy that.
>|> But like the 64K max for postings, it is a better idea to post in a format
>|> that the general audience can display.
>|>
>|> Please do not take this as a flame.
>|>
>|> Rich
>|>
>|> [e-mail]
>|>
>|>
>Sorry.  It's just the program that I use for News.  It is an X-windows
>environment and it automatically linefeeds.  Apparently, it actually doesn't place
>a line feed char in the text though..eh?

I still do not understand. You cannot just hit RETURN/ENTER/WHATEVER
before the end of the screen? A friend of mine used xnews, I will have
to take a look. I still use trn, or even rn if I have to. I would still
think that xrn would place linefeeds only after a line must wrap. If
this is so, just narrow the window a bit. I prefer wide windows for
some things, but for posting, 80 columns still seems appropriate.

I doubt that xrn will run on my machine, but I have access to several
Sun boxes running 4.1.1. I'll try the IPC for a day or 2.

>Anyone else using "xrn" have this problem?
>
>Brick

Rich

[e-mail]


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 21:35:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
Lines: 11

Last year I was listening to a radio show from San Franciso over
KEST l450 kc AM.  On this particular show a person was talking by
the name of Shaari.  She is a regular person born to parents on
Earth just like everybody else.  As best  I can understand it she
was communicating with the space people by ESP and finally made the
switch with the space person to take over her body (sort of a
walk-on.  She now has an intelligence that is controlling her body
that was a occupant of a space ship in the Ashtar Command.  She has
a lot to say about Crop Circles and I'll be trying my best to post
some of that information in the future.
That's all folks. John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bt479
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: SURE AS SHOOTIN!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 06:50:38 GMT
Lines:       11


SOMEONE deleted my last note!!  I sure as hell didn't do it!!!  Now, I have
discovered that my good old friend Danny Fried was replaced, and they have
tried to replace Joan again as well...llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll###

--
Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
                    Internet:[e-mail]
Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh
From: [e-mail] (Nate Hawthorn)
Subject: Lets get with the Science
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 07:44:37 GMT
Lines: 36

OK, I have been doing some research and I now will release this information
because I am sick and tired of people sitting around thinking that they
can't possibly do what UFO's are doing.

We really are not that far from doing what they are, we just need to look
at things that other's have passed over.

For those of you with a background in RF, if you want to tell WHERE
a UFO is in the sky, take a spectrum analyser and connect it to a computer,
watch a small section of spectrum (depending on your antenna mostly) for
the NOISE LEVEL. If you point the antenna at the UFO you will find
that your NOISE level rises up a bit. YOU WILL NOT FIND A CERTIAN
"FREQUENCY" that goes up and down, its WIDEBAND NOISE as far as we
understand it.

If you understand the basics I am talking about here, then you will
understand how to construct an antenna that the computer runs that
will sweep around and locate the UFO.

Try it at area 52 (I expect after all the TV coverage about area 52 that
they have moved the operation anyway), it will be very usefull over
the fields that Crop Circles have been found too!

Once you understand that it's wide band noise, you might even get a
idea of how you can do what they are doing!!

More info may be available at [phone] in the "UFO" section. (modem)

Please post this information on ANY system you know of that has TEXT
section for Space.

Please feel free to write me so that we can get together and discuss
the Science behind all this. Please, no "gross alien" type people, I
think LOGICALLY and want to talk SCIENCE PLEASE!

Nate..
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 21:08:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 26


 > But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground,
 > then
 > it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages.  Every
 > researcher
 > will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as
 > much
 > control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's
 > Stone
 > of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be).
 >
 > I find it rather disgusting.  It does nothing to garner abductionists
 > the
 > legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the
 > impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want
 > us
 > to believe.

I second this.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Opinion Poll - Intruders
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Jun 92 21:11:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 15

I would like to get feedback from the netters out here about your impression
of the recent CBS Mini-series, Intruders.

Please post them here or email them to me at [e-mail].  Please be
specific about what you liked or didn't like about it, the quality of
information, etc.

Thanks,

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: BOB LAZAR?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 11:31:40 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Hello anybody,

Has anyone done any further checking on Bob Lazars' background? I was curious if
anyone has any information on him,good,bad or whatever.Any info would be appreciated. Also,has anyone seen the video that he put together on the advanced technology that he alledgedly worked on?

Thanks,

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 11:50:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 32
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com


 > But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground,
 > then
 > it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages.  Every
 > researcher
 > will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as
 > much
 > control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's
 > Stone
 > of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be).
 >
 > I find it rather disgusting.  It does nothing to garner abductionists
 > the
 > legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the
 > impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want
 > us
 > to believe.

>>I second this.

>>Mike

ME TOO. There seems to be alot of repulsive information hording in this field. As a matter of fact at the regional M.U.F.O.N. meetings recently Video & Audio recordings are now prohibited because the information is so sensative,what a joke.I thought we were supposed exposing what ever is going on ,not trying to hide it. Seems people in the know are doing exactly what they accuse the government of doing. What a sad state of affairs.

Rod
--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26282 alt.alien.visitors:6608
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!mama!andy
From: [e-mail] (Andy Newman)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 06:42:59 GMT
References: <f9kl-=#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Lines: 5

I think the text got corrupted in the way to Oz. The bit about JFK
being killed because he was going to tell the world about the aliens
(BTW, Reptoids is a great name - weren't they in V?) was missing ;-)
--
Andy Newman ([e-mail])
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 12:50:34 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 27


>JR=8> The
>JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the
>JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is
>JR=8>not being openly researched by organized,
>JR=8>governmentally supported science.

  Oh, ca-ca.   A serious mystery has to have something
  concrete to investigate.   Like, "The body in the drawing
  room" ---  at least you have a dead body as evidence, and
  can proceed from there to determine the cause of death, the
  time of death, the identity of the person involved, etc.

  There ARE major "mysteries" in our time -- or at least topics
  which are of compelling scientific and societal interest:
  acid rain, global climate, AIDS, etc.  All of these have major
  areas of mystery in the sense that there are major aspects to
  these issues which require deeper understanding and more study.

  UFO's are purely speculative.  NO concrete evidence has ever
  been presented that we are dealing with anything real.  Until
  that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists.


---peter


Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26288 alt.alien.visitors:6610
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion
Message-ID: <#[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 15:05:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <f9kl-=#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 50

[e-mail] (Steve Timpson) writes:

>In article <f9kl-=#[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes...
>>Below is the text of a flyer someone sent me detailing the latest alien/
>>U.S. government collusion theory.  It is apparently a compilation of Bill
>>Coooper's stuff with a few Lear tidbits thrown in for spice.  The flyer
>>itself did not name the original source for this stuff, so if anyone has
>>info on just *who* put out this flyer, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me
>>know.
>>
>>BEGIN FLYER
>>
>>        THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM
>>

>        ....[drival deleted]....

>        Big YAWN!

>        The paranoic  level  of  this  posting  is  so great that I would
>        have to believe that Gary Stollman posted this.

>        Hey Gary when  are  you going to repost your INVASION note again.

>        With the exception of the above drival this file is getting dry.

>        Steve  Food_for_the_Greys

It is unclear from your reply whether you are attempting to answer my
request for info on the source of the flyer or if you think that Gary
Stollman is somehow masquerading as a member of the Georgia Skeptics.

If it is the former, while possible, I don't think Gary was responsible
for this particular piece of work.  He seems to concentrate on postings
to the net and this was originally distributed as an anonymous printed
flyer.

If you were attempting the latter, then I suggest you stay awake when
reading these postings.  If you had done so, you would have seen from my
.sig that I am a member of the Georgia Skeptics.  A clue (albeit possibly
too obsucre for some to recognise) that I do not subscribe to the content
of the flyer.
--

Anson Kennedy                                                   [e-mail]
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

"If you don't watch the violence,    \           "If I had been the Virgin Mary,
you'll never get desensitized to it."  \                I would have said 'No.'"
-Bart Simpson                            \  -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!mcnc!borg!monet!davidson
From: [e-mail] (Drew Davidson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 16:38:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 51

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>JR=8> The
>>JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the
>>JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is
>>JR=8>not being openly researched by organized,
>>JR=8>governmentally supported science.
>
>  Oh, ca-ca.   A serious mystery has to have something
>  concrete to investigate.

So I guess a missing person report is not a serious mystery.  Heck,
the person's missing so there's nothing concrete to investigate!
Hey, wait a minute, my wallet's gone!  Oh well, nothing I can do,
there's nothing concrete to investigate.  :-)

>  UFO's are purely speculative.  NO concrete evidence has ever
>  been presented that we are dealing with anything real.  Until
>  that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists.

Not necessarily true.

I became interested in the "UFO phenomenon" after reading a few
interesting posts on the net.  I am a die-hard skeptic when it comes to
pseudo-sciences.  I would *love* to see proof of extraterrestrial life.
But so far I haven't.  What I *have* seen, however, is absolute proof
that the US government is (to put it mildly) much more interested in the
UFO phenomenon than the public is led to believe.  This proof has been
acquired through FOIA and published in several books.  I am *very*
interested in government secrecy and coverups, especially when it
involves lying to the public.

What do all the other skeptics on this newsgroup think about government
secrecy?  It is clearly not proof of UFO reality, but it *is* important
in and of itself.  How free is a nation when its government lies to its
people?

UFOs themselves are a secondary interest to me (until I get abducted :-).
If I hear one more abduction story or see one more video of a
stationary bright light in the sky I think I'll hurl.  What really
interests me (and is arguably more important until the proverbial White
House Lawn Landing) is the abuse of power here on Earth.

Comments?

Drew
--
Drew Davidson        \\     HELP FULLY INFORM JURORS!  TELL YOUR FRIENDS:
[e-mail]   \\    As a juror, you have the right to vote NOT GUILTY
 ** LEGALIZE TRUTH **  \\   if you believe the law broken is unjust or wrongly
* FULLY INFORM JURORS * \\  applied, regardless of the facts of the case.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <#[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:15:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 96

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>As it turns out, the best places in the Universe for life to flourish
>(although not to first appear) are the interiors of planetary bodies
>that contain enough radioisotopes to maintain a long-duration thermal
>gradient between their molten interiors and their surfaces, not the
>surfaces of planets, or asteroids in deep space. Planetary interiors
>offer many advantages besides a source of long-lasting energy: protection
>from radiation, from weathering and corrosion, and from the temptation
>to waste scarce materials by using them in ways that risk their loss.

While this would provide a self-heating enviornment, I have a question.
Where will they get fresh water and food? I am not aware of any way to
produce organics from rock, so unless that can consume rock, there must
be some supporting (carbon?) cycle and some sort of water purification
cycle. There are some built-in assumptions here, but fewer I think
than those required for extended survival underground.

>We need posit only one other technology to account for not seeing clear
>evidence of their presence: the ability to interpenetrate matter. This
>could involve some kind of cross-plane or wormhole physics, but it is

Both of these are at this point pure speculation, for which there is
no supporting evidence. "cross-plane" physics may have no real meaning,
although SF has developed the concept.

>also possible that it could be done using more conventional physics
>through a process I call bosonic propulsion, in which an entire vehicle
>would be put into a bosonic state, like the Cooper pairs of electrons
>in superconductivity, so that they could pass between their underground
>cities and outer space without having to have access ports through the
>ground, and, indeed, to be invisible while traveling in that mode.
>Such a life-style would probably leave no trace on the surfaces of the
>planets they inhabit, unless there was some side-effect like crop
>circles.

Do you really think that this is the case, or are you just speculating
out loud? (so to speak)

>We could have a million underground alien cities, each housing a
>million aliens, and never know it if they chose not to reveal
>themselves.  They could have been here for billions of years.

If they are organic, what do they eat? And where does a billion years
of waste go? Re-cycling is not 100% efficient, there must be some
waste, and some requirement for new materials.

>If one looks at the physics and economics of long-duration civiliza-
>tions, then it becomes more difficult to explain the absence of such
>underground cities than their presence.

It has yet to be shown that underground cities are viable. You are
extrapolating well beyond the known. Or do you know of some underground
cities? If so tell me about their economics.

>As for why none of the alien races that might inhabit our planet choose
>to reveal themselves to us, why do the passengers and crew of a cruise
>ship not reveal themselves to the barnacles infesting the ship's hull.
>Unless and until we become to problem to them, we are likely to be
>ignored.

Some say that the aliens do not reveal themselves because we would
blow them out of the sky at the first oppurtunity. You say that we
are as barnacles, presumably unintelligent, and uninteresting to any
extraterrestial intelligences. We have a wide range of options to
choose from. It would seem to me that -if- such an ET race had gone
to all the trouble to get here, they would likely show -some- interest
in the local's, even if they considered them to be animals.

>And that may be the hardest thing to take -- that we are simply too
>insignificant to merit contact, even though we live only a few
>kilometers away.

These are strong conclusions to base upon speculation. And like the
mother-earth crowd, it seems rather anti-human.

>If this scenario is valid, then it hardly makes sense to call the
>others "aliens" or "visitors". They have have been here a lot longer
>than we have, and may call Earth home.

The meaning of "aliens" and "visitors" is unchanged. If they are not
native to earth, then they are and always will be alien. However, if
they have homesteaded, then "visitors" may not apply.

>---
>
>[e-mail], [e-mail]
>Jon Roland
>Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
>Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
>

Rich    (wondering abour the "Starflight Corporation")

[e-mail]


Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26298 alt.alien.visitors:6613
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <f9kl-=#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <#[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 19:12:57 GMT
Lines: 61


In article <#[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes...
]>>BEGIN FLYER
]>>
]>>        THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM
]>>

]>        ....[drival deleted]....

]>        Big YAWN!

]>        The paranoic  level  of  this  posting  is  so great that I would
]>        have to believe that Gary Stollman posted this.

]>        Hey Gary when  are  you going to repost your INVASION note again.

]>        With the exception of the above drival this file is getting dry.

]>        Steve  Food_for_the_Greys

]It is unclear from your reply whether you are attempting to answer my
]request for info on the source of the flyer or if you think that Gary
]Stollman is somehow masquerading as a member of the Georgia Skeptics.

]If it is the former, while possible, I don't think Gary was responsible
]for this particular piece of work.  He seems to concentrate on postings
]to the net and this was originally distributed as an anonymous printed
]flyer.

]If you were attempting the latter, then I suggest you stay awake when
]reading these postings.  If you had done so, you would have seen from my
]..sig that I am a member of the Georgia Skeptics.  A clue (albeit possibly
]too obsucre for some to recognise) that I do not subscribe to the content
]of the flyer.
]--

]Anson Kennedy                                                   [e-mail]
]Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)


        Well the  reference  to Gary Stollman was a dig at Gary Stollman.
        I new quite well that Gary did not write it.

        My reply was  to  the  topic.   It was pure drivel and I only got
        part way into it  before I felt the bile rising in my throat so I
        began my reply at that point.

        As to your original posting there was nothing in the beginning to
        indicate  you were a skeptic.  If you expected  me  to  read  the
        whole  posting just to find out your a skeptic you  have  another
        thing coming.  You should say at the begining of the posting that
        you  do not buy into this stuff and that you are posting  it  for
        pure entertainment only.   Otherwise  people  will think that you
        are yourself buying into it.  Most of the stuff in this news line
        is not worth reading more than  a  few lines before rejection and
        your posting was one.

        Chill out sport!

        Steve Food_for_the_Greys

Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10496 alt.alien.visitors:6614 sci.skeptic:26300 talk.bizarre:62431 alt.cascade:1322
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.bizarre,alt.cascade
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 19:29:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.bizarre,alt.test,alt.cascade
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Lines: 7
Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I spelled encourage with an i (incourage).  Sorry about that.
>
>
>John Winston.

Well, we'll let 'ya slide this time but, don't let it happen again.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6615 sci.skeptic:26302 alt.paranormal:5324
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:56:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <10704705@[e-mail]> <422800031@peg>
Lines: 35

Today is the 45th anniversary of the birth of UFOs, or, as they were
called in those days, "flying Saucers." On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth
Arnold reported seeing a group of objects shaped roughly like boomerangs,
flying in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier in Washington state, that "skipped
like a saucer" tossed over water.

Notice that people did not report seeing what Arnold SAID he saw - objects
having a sort of boomerang-like shape - but rather what they THOUGHT he said
he saw, "flying saucers." It didn't look like a saucer, but rather
it behaved like one, yet this didn't seem to matter. From this popular
misimpression, "flying saucers" (later UFOs) were born. People "saw"
what they had been told they might "see."

Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more
solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947.
I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
something "out there" to be proven?


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <#[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 20:37:08 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 43

In article <#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>If they are organic, what do they eat? And where does a billion years
>of waste go? Re-cycling is not 100% efficient, there must be some
>waste, and some requirement for new materials.

In my opinion, the most serious problem for long-term underground dwelling
(millions-billions of years) is not materials waste, but heat waste.

If your civilization depends upon the heat differential between the core
of the planet and the surface for its energy needs, then it must not heat
the planetary surface at a faster rate than the heat can be dissipated
by the surface.  Obtaining work (what most people mean when they say
energy) from heat involves transferring heat from the heat source (core)
to a lower temperature sink (surface).  This results in a net rise in
temperature at the sink.

Presumably there is already a heat transfer occuring naturally as heat
diffuses from the core to the surface.  In order to obtain work one
would have to perform additional heat transfer, resulting in a higher
surface temperature.  As the surface temperature rises, the efficiency
of the energy conversion drops, requiring more heat to be transferred
to the surface per unit of work performed.

For small amounts of work the effect would be negligible.  But considering
how quickly temperatures go up as one moves into the interior of a planet,
it seems that the energy requirements for air-conditioning the living
spaces alone would be enormous for a vast civilization living underground.
Then add to this the energy requirements of the daily life of this
hypothetical civilization (such as transportation, manufacturing, etc.).

If there happens to develop a green-house like effect on the surface due
to large quantities of carbon dioxide (which can come from volcanic
venting, large animal populations, or industrial wastes), the capacity of
the surface to shed heat would drop off rapidly.  Therefore, if for no
other reason than self-interest, underground civilizations would be
expected to display a keen interest in the life forms dwelling on the
planetary surface.  Global warming could spell the end of their
civilization.
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 20:49:21 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 82


From: [e-mail] (Drew Davidson)
>>>JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the
>>>JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is
>>>JR=8>not being openly researched by organized,
>>>JR=8>governmentally supported science.
>>
>>  Oh, ca-ca.   A serious mystery has to have something
>>  concrete to investigate.
>
>So I guess a missing person report is not a serious mystery.  Heck,
>the person's missing so there's nothing concrete to investigate!
>Hey, wait a minute, my wallet's gone!  Oh well, nothing I can do,

  Don't be silly.   Wallets and people are actual physical
  entities.   The only way a missing person report would be
  equivalent to a UFO report would be if investigation suggested
  that maybe there WAS no person to begin with.  I.e., if nobody
  had been issued the alleged person's social security number,
  his alleged address turned uot to be a vacant lot, etc.  But
  assuming there was no reasonable doubt that the person existed
  in the first place, then there is no parallel.


>>  UFO's are purely speculative.  NO concrete evidence has ever
>>  been presented that we are dealing with anything real.  Until
>>  that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists.
>
>Not necessarily true.

  What's not necessarily true?  The evidence or the relevant field
  of study?    The first one is absolutely true -- NOBODY has presented
  any physical evidence.  Notice how even the intrepid poster who
  recently claimed that artifacts had been removed from the noses of
  "abductees" has failed to come forward to substantiate his claim after
  I publically requested details or evidence.    I'd be willing to grant
  that meteorologists, science fiction writers, in addition to others
  may have an interest in UFO sightings.


>I became interested in the "UFO phenomenon" after reading a few
>interesting posts on the net.  I am a die-hard skeptic when it comes to
>pseudo-sciences.  I would *love* to see proof of extraterrestrial life.
>But so far I haven't.  What I *have* seen, however, is absolute proof
>that the US government is (to put it mildly) much more interested in the
>UFO phenomenon than the public is led to believe.

  This is too vague a statement to be meaningful.  What is this "ab-
  solute proof"?   (like I expect to get a useful answer . . .)
  Have you seen any of this "absolute proof" yourself, or are you just
  basing your opinion of stuff you read on the net?


>What do all the other skeptics on this newsgroup think about government
>secrecy?  It is clearly not proof of UFO reality, but it *is* important
>in and of itself.  How free is a nation when its government lies to its
>people?

  If UFO enthusiasts would have less of a fixation with events at Air
  Force bases in Nevada or New Mexico they might not find so much
  cause to complain about government secrecy!   I'm sorry but common
  sense suggests that the government claims about military secrets
  at Air Force bases are a tad more believable than UFO hunter's
  claims that there are LGM's on ice there.


>stationary bright light in the sky I think I'll hurl.  What really
>interests me (and is arguably more important until the proverbial White
>House Lawn Landing) is the abuse of power here on Earth.
>
>Comments?

   Then why are you posting in alt.alien.visitors?  I agree that the
   question of government secrecy is an interesting political and
   philosophical topic, but what does it have to do with UFO's?
   It sounds like an appropriate subject for talk.politics.



---peter


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 22:32:08 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
                            [...]
>   Then why are you posting in alt.alien.visitors?  I agree that the
>   question of government secrecy is an interesting political and
>   philosophical topic, but what does it have to do with UFO's?
>   It sounds like an appropriate subject for talk.politics.

The previous poster states that the government is intimately and
secretly involved in studying UFO's and in covert operations against
private citizens in the USA who are also studying UFO's, and your
reply is: "What does that have to do with UFO's?"  Pretty lame,
Peter.

I think he posted it because you asked about hard evidence, and
this is one area in the subject of UFO's where there is hard
evidence (not of the existence of extraterrestrials per-se -
but of a lot of surreptiteous scurrying around by US intelligence
personel who seem very paranoid about people who believe in them).
The evidence is documented through official FOA reports from the
government.  Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is obscure
about the connection?
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!yale!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!snapper.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 23:23:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter Caffell) writes:

|>
|>
|> |CM>   "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed         |
|> |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight  |
|> |CM>of 85,069 feet.  Another dashed from New York to London in less than    |
|> |CM>two hours.  This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates  |
|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|>
|> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990.
|>
|> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to
|> 1981.
|>
|> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the
|> SR-71 taking off.
|>
|> Peter.
|> ___
|> X MegaMail 2.1b #0:


Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?

It must have been before 1990.   Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book
that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then.

Brick
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!snapper.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jun 92 23:57:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 50

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>
|> >JR=8> The
|> >JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the
|> >JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is
|> >JR=8>not being openly researched by organized,
|> >JR=8>governmentally supported science.
|>
|>   Oh, ca-ca.   A serious mystery has to have something
|>   concrete to investigate.   Like, "The body in the drawing
|>   room" ---  at least you have a dead body as evidence, and
|>   can proceed from there to determine the cause of death, the
|>   time of death, the identity of the person involved, etc.
|>
|>   There ARE major "mysteries" in our time -- or at least topics
|>   which are of compelling scientific and societal interest:
|>   acid rain, global climate, AIDS, etc.  All of these have major
|>   areas of mystery in the sense that there are major aspects to
|>   these issues which require deeper understanding and more study.
|>
|>   UFO's are purely speculative.  NO concrete evidence has ever
|>   been presented that we are dealing with anything real.  Until

I have one question for you.

 Can you prove to me or anyone else that we, the United States, has actually
 been to the moon?  Concrete proof??

You say, "Oh sure, there are plenty of photos and footage!"
Devil advocate response:  They could have been manufactured...fake.
               Come on show me some concrete proof!!
               If you cant, I guess we never went to the moon.


|>   that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists.
|>
|>
|> ---peter
|>
|>

How many years did it take for some people to actually, finally, believe that we
had put someone on the moon.  My great grandma didn't believe it for 4 or 5 years.

Think about it Peter.  The general public could never prove it.

So basically,  I guess we never actually landed on the moon.  I cant prove it.
Can anyone out there (besides you NASA employees) prove it??

Brick
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:53:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

Subject: Crop Circles.
After hearing about Shaari on the radio I contacted a friend of
by the name of Dr. David Kamitser who was planning some seminars with
her and he gave me her address in Canada. I wrote her and she copy
of one of her tapes that was talking about crop circles.  I will
now attempt to take the information off of her tape. The parts that
I couldn't lunderstand will be put in brackets, like this{ }.
    Transmission from SHAARIand her friends Abraham and Malaya.
P.O. Box 22040 Brentwood Bay, B.C. Canada.
VOS IRO ((604-652-3118)
I'll have to stop for now. John Winston
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!linebaug
From: [e-mail] (Kurt P Linebaugh)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 00:49:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 29


|> >> [arguments about lack of concrete evidence deleted]

|> I became interested in the "UFO phenomenon" after reading a few
|> interesting posts on the net.  I am a die-hard skeptic when it comes to
|> pseudo-sciences.  I would *love* to see proof of extraterrestrial life.
|> But so far I haven't.  What I *have* seen, however, is absolute proof
|> that the US government is (to put it mildly) much more interested in the
|> UFO phenomenon than the public is led to believe.  This proof has been
|> acquired through FOIA and published in several books.  I am *very*
|> interested in government secrecy and coverups, especially when it
|> involves lying to the public.


Actually, I would go so far as to say that there is almost irrefutable
evidence to the existence of UFO's.  I am NOT saying there is evidence of
extraterrestrial life, but of unidentified flying objects.  There have been
numerous reports (thousands) where the government cannot explain
occurances even on some of their own military (missile) bases.
Read 'Clear Intent' if you don't believe me.  The government MUST be very
much interested in this topic if for no other reason than national
security!  Why won't our government tell us the truth?

Can anyone e-mail me the names of any books or articles about the
government cover-up of the UFO phenomenon?

--

[e-mail]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6623 alt.conspiracy:16044 sci.skeptic:26319 talk.religion.newage:10504
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 07:58:51 EDT
Lines: 9

I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN
I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING
REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!!

        Gary Stollman

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6624 alt.conspiracy:16045 sci.skeptic:26320 talk.religion.newage:10505
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 08:42:54 EDT
Lines: 254

?
 ************
Topic 12        Sun Aug 04, 1991
G.FAIRCHILD [DEATHJESTER]    at 20:09 EDT
Sub: UFO's and Close Encounters

Topic for discussing UFO's, "Close Encounters", and for people to talk about
what they believe, and what governments are holding back from the public.
Anyone remember "Hanger 18"?

791 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 12
Message 522       Tue May 19, 1992
MARCUS                       at 02:09 EDT

 ------------ Category 4,  Topic 29 Message 103       Thu Aug 22, 1991
G.STOLLMAN [Gary]            at 23:55 EDT

I have waited a while before I placed the stuff on here that will prove to all
that my story is true...There were reasons for this! However, now it can be
told...

[Two paragraphs here removed by Marcus.]

I started in computers in 1977, when my mom showed me an advertisment in the
L.A. Times about a computer fair at USC...She knew about my interest in
computers from my spending all my spare time at computer stores (what few
there were at that time), and buying up everything I could lay my hands on
about the subject...I had searched for many years for something which would
utilize the fine mind I was gifted with...

So it was one weekend that summer that I first walked into the Keck Computer
Center at USC...The place was packed to the walls with people of all ages
(mostly kids) sitting at and standing behind terminals hooked up to the
college's main-frame computer...They were deeply involved in playing computer
games of every size and shape, limited though they were by the technology of
the time...As soon as I got a chance at one of the terminals, I was hooked for
life...I vowed that I would come back there after the fair was over and learn
everything about their system that I could...

The next day I was back, but this time with knowledge that would enable me to
access the computers without having "legal" access to them...The Keck Center
was one of those unique places where ANYONE could just walk in and use the
computers, as the signon information was handily placed on the blackboard in
the room...When I discovered that this information was NOT enough to give me
the highest level of access I needed, it was nothing to me to merely steal
someone elses password...I was on a "holy quest for knowledge", and would let
nothing stand in my way...Stealing passwords is pretty easy if you have little
morals about going about it...The easiest way is to simply stand behind
someone elses terminal when they are logging in, and watch them type in their
password...Even if you don't see the exact keys they hit, you can make a
mental note of the general area they strike, and then it is merely a process
of elimination...

After I had a signon which would allow me to make print-outs on the main line
printer without anyones knowledge, I printed up copies of the manuals for
EVERY computer language available at that time...Also, the Keck Center had a
full tutorial at my disposal that taught the Basic computer language, one of
the first languages that a person starts with...It only took me a few weeks to
learn Basic through this method...

Around this time, I discovered that there were several other computer sites at
USC which I could access...One was the Salvatori Computer Center, a few blocks
down the street from the Keck Center...This system was much more advanced than
the Keck's, being a Tops-10 system...If you think I am a kind of scoundrel for
what I did, think of this...The first day I walked into the Salvatori Center,
there were maybe 5 little kids sitting there playing games on their system,
using passwords stolen from students going there...One of them offered me a
password, and I was on my way...

I learned everything about the Tops-10 system that could be known over the
next few weeks...I learned how to copy files from other users accounts, even
the system operators...After a while, there was little that I couldn't do or
gain access to...

I had fun, but I was still expanding, reaching for more and more
knowledge...It was at this time that I made what would become one of the most
important friends in my life...I was sitting around the Santa Monica Computer
Store, one of the few computer stores at the time, playing some game which I
can't even remember to this day...A guy walked in, and bought a disk drive,
and started to walk out...He stopped and looked at the game I was
playing..."That's a pretty nice game, isn't it!," he said to me...I was
anxious to impress him..."Oh, have you ever seen Adventure?!," I asked
him...Adventure was a "brand-new" main-frame game that I played at a special
computer set up at the Salvatori Center..."Have you ever seen Zork!!??," he
responded..."ZORK!!!," I excitedly answered..."What's ZORK!!??"...He then told
me if I would like to come by his office the next day, he would gladly show
me...This was like asking the snake if it would like a bite of the Apple...I
immediately agreed, and he told me how to get to his office...

When I arrived at Rick Shiffman's office the next day, he happily welcomed me
into the world of the Arpanet (Advanced Research Project Network), sponsored
by the Department of Defense...This is a huge computer network linking some
300-350 college, research, and defense computers around the nation...Rick sat
me down at the terminal in his office, and began to demonstrate just what he
was into...It turned out that not only was he partially responsible for
creating the language (Muddle) that Zork used, but his signon was one of the
most powerful on the Arpanet...He let me play Zork alone in his office for a
few hours, than sadly told me that I would have to leave...I thanked him, and
asked him if I could come back sometime in the future...He agreed, as long as
he had time available...I then walked out of the building, but as I was not
one to be turned away by any kind of security, I made a note of the methods
that people used to gain access to the building...

That weekend, I walked into the USC-ISI (Informational Sciences Institute)
building, signed my name in the book at the guard's desk, and took the
elevator to the top floor of the South tower of the Bank of America buildings
in Marina Del Rey...I rang the bell of the door, which was locked and had only
a peephole through which you were looked at, and the door opened only if you
were someone who should be there...A voice asked who I was, and I told the
voice that I was a friend of Ricks'...The door swung open, and Larry Fye, one
of the operators of the site who would become my greatest ally on the network,
invited me in...

Larry took me into the computer room, and told me that he couldn't let me use
his signon to play games...Then he had a thought (luckily for me), and got
Rick Shiffman on the phone...He told Rick I was there and wanted to play Zork,
and would he give me the password to his account...Rick agreed, and I took the
phone, and entered the mysterious inner workings of the Arpanet...

I spent the entire day and night there, on one of the terminals in someone's
office playing Zork...At about 2am or so, I decided I couldn't look at the
screen any longer, and asked Larry if I could come back the next day, sometime
in the afternoon...As it was a Sunday, and he was working weekends, he
agreed...I walked out the doors, signed out at the guard's station downstairs,
and the guard asked me if I was tired working so late, and I just told him no,
that I was used to it by now...I laughed all the way to my car...

The next day, I rang the bell at the 12th floor, and Larry opened the door and
greeted me as if I was one of his best friends for years...It does get pretty
lonely, baby-sitting a computer by yourself for hours on end...This time,
Larry started to introduce me to some of the neat tricks of the trade of being
an operator...He showed me how to load the tape decks and disk packs, and how
to run the whole system...It was just this kind of intimate knowledge that
would lead to my downfall...

I spent the next TWO YEARS, DAY AND NIGHT, at the site...I didn't have much of
a social life during this time, but I made up for it in knowledge...I learned
the inside and out of the Arpanet, and using Ricks signon and authority, I
began to gain access to all the other computers on the network...It was really
quite easy...I would simply send a "E-mail" note to a site, saying I was a
associate of Ricks, and needed the signon for a project I was working on...I
usually put down that I was investigating the intellectual aspect of computer
game-playing as a social function, just for the laugh...Because of the
priority of the signon I was using, the next day a note would come back
saying, "All set up!"...In some cases, if the operator had knowledge of Rick,
the signon was created while I watched...I never told Rick of this aspect of
my "game-playing"...

It wasn't long before I had discovered how to access the Pentagon's computers,
and figured out how to decifer the protected files that were on there...It was
SO damn easy, it was really unbelievable...It was at this time that I began to
have problems with one of the people at the site...The office which I had been
using had some top-secret data sitting on the shelves, which I used to go
through, but always returned it exactly as I found it...Somehow, the guy whose
office it was got wind that his stuff had been tampered with, and I was forced
to move to another office...Darn!

Anyways, I was hanging around the Keck Center one day, when I didn't want to
go to ISI some weekend, and I noticed this kid sitting at a new special
terminal playing a game on the computer at Cal Tech in Pasadena over a
modem...I knew this had to be impossible, but I queried him and he told me
that it was a secret, and he couldn't give out the info because it was
"dangerous"...I stood behind him and tried to see what number he was dialing,
but he was as sharp as I was, and covered his hand while dialing...I was able
to find out from him after a few more times there that there was a special
number called a TIP number (Terminal IMP Processor), which connected to a
computer in the basement of the Pentagon, and allowed one to access ANY
computer on the Arpanet through any modem...The number was kept a close
secret, though, but I am a determined guy, and although it took me almost a
year to learn the number, I did it...

I found the number on the wall next to the first Plato terminal I ever saw...I
had been told by one of the regular kids at the Salvatori Center that if I
wanted to see some REAL games, I should go over to a certain building near
USC, and get a signon on the Plato computer system...When I walked into the
room containing three Plato terminals hooked up to CERL (Computer Education
Research Lab) at the University of Illinois in Urbana, Illinois, there was a
large piece of paper on the wall which said USC-TIP and the number
underneath...I simply couldn't believe it...Top-Secret phones numbers sitting
around for all to see!!!  I asked the head guy there and was given a signon to
CERL...

For the next two weeks, I spent day and night at the place, playing a true
fighter simulation called Airfight...Then the site went down, and the
terminals were taken out...I made a note of the TIP number, and started
dialing out to the Arpanet from the modems at the Keck Center...I spent a few
memorable weeks doing this...

Then, something happened which scared the H**L out of me...Larry Fye was
showing off his skills to me one night at ISI, when he suddenly asked me if I
would like to see him knock one of the other sites off the face of the
earth...I told him I would have to see it to believe it, so he opened the
bottom drawer of the operators desk there, and took out a book which had some
interesting writing on it...It said that it was a Federal Offense to OPEN the
book, and the penalty was a 20-year prison term or $50,000, whichever came
first!  He flipped the huge book open to some page, then copied down some
numbers that were on the page...Then he signed on to SRI (Stanford Research
Institute), did a couple of things, typed in the numbers, hit the return key,
and said, "THEY'RE GONE!!!"...I looked on in amazement as the message "SRI is
not ready..." came over the screen...This meant that SRI was GONE...It had
been knocked off the air...I didn't believe it was possible, so I tried
logging on through Telnet...Sure enough, the system had gone down...Larry told
me that this could be done to ANY computer if you knew the right codes...I
thought of what could happen to the real important computers on the Arpanet if
that got out somehow...I was truly scared...

A few nights later, something happened...I learned about it the next day from
Rick...He came up to me as I was coming in, and rudely demanded to know where
I had been the night before...I told him I had not been there, and after a few
moments, he confided in me what had happened the previous night...It seems
that Rick had been working late and had seen some people he didn't recognize
standing in the dark...When he called out to them, they took off, and ran down
the stairs and out of the building...Rick then called security and when they
searched the offices, it turned out that something of a Top-Secret nature had
been taken...Rick said he couldn't tell me what it was, for reasons I well
knew...He said I could not come to the site any longer like I had been
doing...I said I was sorry something had been taken, and told him goodbye...

Not being one to lose a million-dollar opportunity, I went to the Keck Center
and signed on to the Arpanet on one of my signons...Suddenly, the operator did
a Talk to me, and asked me who I was...When I beat around the bush, he got
ENRAGED and DEMANDED to know who had authorized my signon...I got scared and
broke the connection...I practically ran out of the place...

The next day, being too curious for my own good, I came back to the Keck
Center and tried to log onto one of my various signons...It was GONE!!!  I
tried signon after signon, and EVERY one was gone...Suddenly, the connection
went dead...When I dialed the TIP number, I heard a strange pulsating tone
coming over it that was not normal...I went home...

The next day, I came back, and when I tried the TIP number, IT was GONE!!!  I
was scared to death, and went home, making sure that nobody saw me leave the
place...I knew that something REAL big had happened, if they had disconnected
the TIP number itself...It was pretty frightening...I imagined in my mind
government officials like the CIA and FBI pouring over ISI with a fine tooth
comb to learn exactly what I had been into...And what about those people
standing in the dark, who had taken something so important and secret that
Rick wouldn't tell me about it...How had they gotten in???  I was the ONLY
person outside of the people working there that had access to the place...Did
they somehow have knowledge of my access and used that to their advantage??? I
just didn't know...I was scared and worried about other computer "crimes" that
I had committed...Anyways, that is how this all REALLY started...

     Gary

 ------------


 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6625 alt.conspiracy:16046 sci.skeptic:26321 talk.religion.newage:10506
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:22:08 EDT
Lines: 18

As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I
had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is...When we got back,
things started happening...I have been calling Joan on my Sprint phone
card, as I can't get the real one using the regular Pacific Bell
lines...When I called her up after dropping her off at her apartment, the
Sprint operator told me that she couldn't put my call through because her
computer terminal was frozen...I tried again...Then there were a series of
loud clicks, and the line went dead...Once again...This time the call went
through, only there was a warbling pulsating tone along with the
ringing...When the REAL Joan answered, there was a loud CLICK, and then
her voice changed...The FAKE one...On a different line...I think you get
the picture...

        Gary Stollman

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6626 alt.conspiracy:16047 sci.skeptic:26325 talk.religion.newage:10508
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 01:01:15 EDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
> I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN
> I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING
> REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!!
>
>         Gary Stollman
>
>  This is from
>      [e-mail]
> who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

Is it just me, or is this guy ^^^  obsessed with the telephone or
what?

Jeez, get a life dude!

-Garrett

(Actually, I am Garrett's clone, the real Garrett is on vacation)

Yeah, un-huh, right...




Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6627 alt.conspiracy:16048 sci.skeptic:26326 talk.religion.newage:10509
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 01:05:42 EDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
> As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I
> had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is...When we got back,
> things started happening...I have been calling Joan on my Sprint phone
> card, as I can't get the real one using the regular Pacific Bell
> lines...When I called her up after dropping her off at her apartment, the
> Sprint operator told me that she couldn't put my call through because her
> computer terminal was frozen...I tried again...Then there were a series of
> loud clicks, and the line went dead...Once again...This time the call went
> through, only there was a warbling pulsating tone along with the
> ringing...When the REAL Joan answered, there was a loud CLICK, and then
> her voice changed...The FAKE one...On a different line...I think you get
> the picture...
>
>         Gary Stollman
>
>  This is from
>      [e-mail]
> who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

I'll bet this guy seriously spazzed out 2 years ago when AT&T's
west coast network went down due to a software error!

Have you taken your medicine today Gary? Hmm??

-Garrett




Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 22:37:57 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6629 alt.conspiracy:16051 sci.skeptic:26327
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.n
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 05:38:07 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Sto
lman) writes:
>I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WH
N
>I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USI
G
>REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!!
>
>        Gary Stollman
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet


Yeah, now he has to have his post watched by the aliens/government/really
bad dudes like the rest of us.  (Hey, somebody have his origional (sp?)
post somewhere?  I want a copy.  See how many people believe it.  We'd all
probably be surprised.)

Big Al  Who has to type out their own obnoxious signature by hand.
X
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!percy!agora!krowell
From: [e-mail] (Keith Rowell)
Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Open Communications Forum
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 04:44:37 GMT
Lines: 30


Michael Lindemann edited and introduced the recent book UFOs and the
Alien Presence published by The 2020 Group, Visitors Investigation
Project, Santa Barbara, CA, 1991. The book consists of six interviews with
Friedman, Linda Howe, Bob Lazar, Budd Hopkins, "Tom" (an abductee?), and Donald
Ware, a MUFON investigator involved with Gulf Breeze.

From his introduction:

"In December of 1989, I launched the Visitors Investigation Project as a
special focus of my future-studies organization, the 2020 Group; and in
March of 1990, I published a brief summary of initial findings titled UFOs
and the Alien Presence: Time for the Truth."

"... there are numerous researchers who belong to what I will call
the liberal wing of ufology. I include myself in this group..."

We believe:

" o  The alien presence is real. Evidence overwhelmingly supports the basic
     claim that intelligent non-human beings are present on the earth.

  o  The alien presence is substantial. There are not just a few compelling
     cases, but hundreds or thousands, suggesting that alien entities are
     here in large numbers.

  o  The alien presence is active and purposeful. ..."



Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6631 alt.conspiracy:16059 sci.skeptic:26340 talk.religion.newage:10511
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 05:53:29 EDT
Lines: 24

I am up late tonight, and just thought I would let you all know what I am
planning on doing...If and when I get the real Joan back, we are going to
go back to Tallahassee together again...When I get there, I will
immediately file a complaint with the police against the hospital that cut
up my dick...Then I will look around for a lawyer who will help me with my
lawsuit against all the hospitals and the government...I don't really care
if I find one who will help me or not, because I will still file in
Federal Court, and I will ask them to appoint me an attorney if need
be...I don't plan on holding anything back, I am suing everyone who ever
looked at me cross-eyed...The Secret Service is also involved in this, as
way back when this all started, I called them to report a threat made on
the presidents life by a classmate of mine, and the next day they told me
the agent had gone on vacation, and that I was crazy and to go check
myself into a mental hospital...It is more invoved than that...Maybe I
will upload some of my stuff from the Writers BB on GEnie later
tonight...The most important thing right now is that the CIA be
destroyed...Utterly!!!  Completely!!!  They are responsible for making the
clones, and working with the aliens who have the power to do it...

        Gary Stollman

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!mcover
From: [e-mail] (Mark Coverdill)
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 12:53:11 GMT
Lines: 49

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter Caffell) writes:
>
>|>
>|>
>|> |CM>   "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed         |
>|> |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight  |
>|> |CM>of 85,069 feet.  Another dashed from New York to London in less than    |
>|> |CM>two hours.  This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates  |
>|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|>
>|> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990.
>|>
>|> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to
>|> 1981.
>|>
>|> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the
>|> SR-71 taking off.
>|>
>|> Peter.
>|> ___
>|> X MegaMail 2.1b #0:
>
>
>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?
>
>It must have been before 1990.   Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book
>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then.
>
>Brick

I am not sure of the exact unveiling date of the SR-71 Blackbird but it
goes well back to the 1950's I believe.  Two of the recon aircraft, the
SR-71 (Strategic Recon) and U-2 (or TR-2 (Tactical Recon)) have been
around for years and years.

I don't have the full text of the message that generated the
discussion about the SR being secret until 1990 but I think what you
are referring to is the F-117 Stealth fighter that went public (a few
months?) prior to Desert Storm.

This program was black for about 10 years and had an operational squadron
of aircraft for many of those years.  After several crashes and
the impending trouble oversea I guess the decision was finally made to
bring it public.

--
Mark Coverdill                                 The Ohio State University
Internet: [e-mail]                              Columbus, Ohio
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 12:43:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 48




From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)

I think he posted it because you asked about hard evidence, and
>this is one area in the subject of UFO's where there is hard
>evidence (not of the existence of extraterrestrials per-se -
>but of a lot of surreptiteous scurrying around by US intelligence
>personel who seem very paranoid about people who believe in them).
>The evidence is documented through official FOA reports from the
>government.  Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is obscure
>about the connection?

   Because he didn't make one!   He didn't offer any evidence
   that the government has any special interest in UFO research,
   *per se*.   As I said before, there is nothing startling about
   the government having a special interest in people who snoop
   around Air Force bases with sophisticated camera or video
   equipment, or who are constantly filing for FOIA documents
   related to same.

   Moreover, we have, and have had in the past, a very snoopy
   government who maintain files on all kinds of groups and
   individuals.  I'll bet most of us who post anything political
   or controversial on Usenet, or who have been activist members
   of any of a number of political or special interest organizations
   have files somewhere in Washington.  So this proves nothing about
   any connection with UFO's.



   And to the other poster who thought we'd never been to the moon --

   When UFO enthusiasts come up with video footage as good as NASA
   provided, come up with a story credible enough to fool all the
   major networks, provide physical evidence as good as the "moon
   rocks" that NASA came up with, and leave other physical evidence
   as good as the LASER inferometer left on the moon that any lab
   with a decent LASER can get a bounce from, then get back to us.
   Until then:  get real!



---peter



Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 10:04:44 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services
Lines: 23



>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?

>It must have been before 1990.   Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book
>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then.

>Brick


The SR-71 was known by the general public as far back as the early 70's. Revell
model company had some nasty litigation against them for making a detailed
plastic model of it without the Air Force's approval. Of course, that blew over
(as I have one hanging up in my basement ;-) It might be interesting to note
that prior to the SR being known about, it was logged as a UFO by radar
operators who would see it streak across their screens at mach 3+ which at that
time (late 50's and early 60's), no other aircraft known by the public could
attain that kind of speed, so what is it ? A UFO of course. The SR was kept
from the public eye for nearly 14 years after it was developed and flown (1956
to 1970). Makes one wonder what else is being kept from the public eye in 1992,
doesn't it ?

-=-=- Wes =-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 15:38:12 GMT
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Rowell) writes:
>We believe:
>
>" o  The alien presence is real. Evidence overwhelmingly supports the basic
>     claim that intelligent non-human beings are present on the earth.
>
>  o  The alien presence is substantial. There are not just a few compelling
>     cases, but hundreds or thousands, suggesting that alien entities are
>     here in large numbers.
>
>  o  The alien presence is active and purposeful. ..."

o The purpose of their visitation is to locate Al Bundy
  so that they can take his used socks in order to fuel
  their ships to help stave off a cosmic catastrophe.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (frost...)
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 17:07:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Lines: 65

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mark Coverdill) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter Caffell) writes:
>>
>>|>
>>|>
>>|> |CM>   "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed         |
>>|> |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight  |
>>|> |CM>of 85,069 feet.  Another dashed from New York to London in less than    |
>>|> |CM>two hours.  This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates  |
>>|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>>|>
>>|> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990.
>>|>
>>|> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to
>>|> 1981.
>>|>
>>|> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the
>>|> SR-71 taking off.
>>|>
>>|> Peter.
>>|> ___
>>|> X MegaMail 2.1b #0:
>>
>>
>>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?
>>
>>It must have been before 1990.   Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book
>>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then.
>>
>>Brick
>
>I am not sure of the exact unveiling date of the SR-71 Blackbird but it
>goes well back to the 1950's I believe.  Two of the recon aircraft, the
>SR-71 (Strategic Recon) and U-2 (or TR-2 (Tactical Recon)) have been
>around for years and years.
>
>I don't have the full text of the message that generated the
>discussion about the SR being secret until 1990 but I think what you
>are referring to is the F-117 Stealth fighter that went public (a few
>months?) prior to Desert Storm.
>
>This program was black for about 10 years and had an operational squadron
>of aircraft for many of those years.  After several crashes and
>the impending trouble oversea I guess the decision was finally made to
>bring it public.
>
>--
>Mark Coverdill                                 The Ohio State University
>Internet: [e-mail]                              Columbus, Ohio

    I believe that the 1990 date is actually referring to the time
    the Air Force announced that the SR-71 was going to be retired
    from service as the modern satelites could do photography and
    recon as well or better than the Blackbird. Then about a year
    ago it was announced that one of the Blackbirds was going to
    the Smithsonian or some such museum and that roughly two others
    were to be made available to NASA for high altitude research.
                            Jim Skeba

======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    [e-mail]
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager
======================================================================
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6637 alt.conspiracy:16075
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
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From: [e-mail] (don korycansky)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 16:34:42 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (`Gary Stollman') writes:
[...]
>REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!!
>
>        Gary Stollman
>
    Wait, now I'm confused...is this the real Stollman, or the clone?

--
Me?   NASA?  Heh!        [e-mail]
"You can't pull *my* wool over the ice!" --Albert Alligator
"Idiots, explosives, and falling anvils"  --Calvin
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From: [e-mail] (Kretmar)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 14:56:02 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]> <422800031@peg> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Bell Atlantic
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>Today is the 45th anniversary of the birth of UFOs, or, as they were
>called in those days, "flying Saucers." On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth
>Arnold reported seeing a group of objects shaped roughly like boomerangs,
>flying in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier in Washington state, that "skipped
>like a saucer" tossed over water.

>Notice that people did not report seeing what Arnold SAID he saw - objects
>having a sort of boomerang-like shape - but rather what they THOUGHT he said
>he saw, "flying saucers." It didn't look like a saucer, but rather
>it behaved like one, yet this didn't seem to matter. From this popular
>misimpression, "flying saucers" (later UFOs) were born. People "saw"
>what they had been told they might "see."

>Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more
>solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947.
>I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
>avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
>UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
>something "out there" to be proven?

1 year, 4 months, 21 days (see you then).


>--
>
>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

>    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
>     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
>     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
>     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
>     table like a card cheat."
>                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
>                                                  Spring, 1992)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6639 alt.conspiracy:16077
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 17:03:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:22:08 EDT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

   As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I
   had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is...

You mean the aliens have replaced Yosemite, too?  The fiends!

-30-
Bob
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski
From: [e-mail] (Tom Gorski)
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Wisconsin Physical Sciences Lab
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 17:00:40 GMT
Lines: 37

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>
>>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?
>
>>It must have been before 1990.   Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book
>>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then.
>
>>Brick
>
>
>The SR-71 was known by the general public as far back as the early 70's. Revell
>model company had some nasty litigation against them for making a detailed
>plastic model of it without the Air Force's approval. Of course, that blew over
>(as I have one hanging up in my basement ;-)

[...]

>-=-=- Wes =-=-=

When I was a little tyke of 4 or 5 back in the mid-60's, my Dad brought
me home a little promotional plastic airplane model that he'd received
at work.  I guess the heavy forge shop that he worked at made the
thrust nozzles or some similiar such part for some aircraft, as a
subcontractor.  I still remember the designator for this airplane:

  YF-12A

For those of you who don't know, this is the aircraft which later
became the SR-71.

To sum it all up, the existence of the aircraft itself has been common
knownledge for at least 25 years or so.  The bird's just too #$@! big
to hide on the ground.  IT'S PERFORMANCE, however, has always been and still
remains a closely guarded secret.

--Tom Gorski
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From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 16:59:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
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[e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:


>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?

>It must have been before 1990.   Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book
>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then.

    The A12 Blackbird (first version) was publically announced by
President Lyndon Johnson in, I think, mid-1964.  The press release included
the wrong photo, which was actually of a YF12 (second version, designed
as a high speed interceptor with look-down, shoot-down capability using
the XAIM-47 Falcon missile, now descended into the AIM54 Phoenix used
on the F14 Tomcat).  If memory serves me correctly (I don't have my Crickmore
here.....) LBJ also spilled his guts on the SR71 the following year,
1965.

    Interestingly enough, the designation was *supposed* to be the
RS71, for Recon. Strike - but LBJ screwed up his speech and called it
the SR71.  Nobody wanted to go against him and correct him, so SR71
it became; and it was eventually pointed out that "SR" could stand
for Strategic Recon., which was closer to the mission anyhow.

    So anyone who was paying attention knew about the Blackbirds
in the middle sixties....but knew almost *nothing* about them.  The
corresponding projects recently have been the F117A Nighthawk, which
we knew nothing about for the first several years of its existance.
Now it is the AURORA/pulser/whatnot that is out tearing around at
Mach-god-only-knows and setting off seismographs in the process....

    Something to keep in mind - the Blackbird was originally
conceived to *replace* the U2 in its role of Soviet overflights.  The 1960
shootdown of Francis Gary Powers' U2 made it plainly obvious that
the Soviets could reach the U2's, so something that could fly higher and
considerably faster was needed.  By the time the US had promised to
make no more *manned* overflights, the Blackbirds were well on their way.
The mission was thus altered, essentially to go overfly other folks!

    And they did.  The CIA's A12 Blackbirds DID overfly North
Vietnam for a short time before the SR71's became operational.  It
is quite possible that some A12's flew operational missions elsewhere,
although much about the A12's has never been made public.

    We *do* know that there was some interest in using them over
Cuba in 1964.  That was scrubbed and U2's continued to be used in
that area.  In 1965 the idea was to use them over Communist China.
That was evidently back-burnered in 1965 when the North Vietnamese
began putting up SAM missile sites around Hanoi.  It became
brutally obvious that the aerial recon. mission in that area
was going to have to change.....

    On May 16, 1967 President Johnson gave the go ahead for
deployment to Kadena, Okinawa for Operation BLACK SHIELD - the airlift
began the next day.  The first deployed A12 flew to Kadena on May
22, non-stop, in 6 hours and 6 minutes.  The unit was operational
by May 29th and the first mission is claimed to have been flown
on May 31st.  It lasted 3 hours and 39 minutes with cruise legs
flown at mach 3.1 at 80,000 feet.  70 of the 190 known SAM sites
in North Vietnam were photographed as well as nine "other" targets.
No radar signals were detected, which suggests that the NV were
seriously caught with their pants down.  :-)

    During the A12's deployment, missions were also flown over North
Korea.  The first of these coincided with the Pueblo incident.

    In March 1968, the A12's began to be phased out as the SR71's
arrived to take over the BLACK SHIELD commitment.  By June, most
of the A12's went into storage, where they have remained until
their recent distribution to museums along with many of the SR71's.

    As a twist of the language, the CIA referred to the A12 using
the code-name OXCART....

    Most of the information I have given you here comes from a document
"...entitled OXCART History (DON:SC-86-010115), has been UNCLASSIFIED
according to Senior Crown Security Class Guide dated 11/01/89,
approved and dated 25 Feb. 91."

    As for where *I* got it from, well, I guess I'll quote the
character of Col. Flagg from M*A*S*H* who said, "I could tell you
but then I'd have to kill you."  :-)

Duane
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From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 18:57:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:

>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?

A few weeks ago I was invited to a tour of the NASA facility
at Edwards AFB.  There was an SR-71 on display.  We were told
that the Blackbird was first made public by LBJ in '64 or '65.
Actually, it was originally called the RS-71, but LBJ got it
wrong, so the designation was changed so LBJ wouldn't look
like a fool.  (Hard to imagine that sort of thing happening
these days.)

At any rate, you guys are confusing the _existance_ of the
SR-71 being classified with its performance stats being so.

--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | [e-mail]
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!leland.Stanford.EDU!edremy
From: [e-mail] (eric remy)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 19:41:46 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
>   As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I
>   had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is...
>
>You mean the aliens have replaced Yosemite, too?  The fiends!


We're looking at this all wrong: let's see if we can get the greys to build
us a few more Yosemites to reduce the overcrowding in the park.  Perhaps
we should even appoint one of them head of the Park Department...

(If they could build one a bit closer to San Jose, I'd really appreciate
it.)



--
Eric R.      [e-mail]       Department of Chemistry
                        -1/2\nabla^2\psi_{T-72}
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332
From: [e-mail] (Sean Eaton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 20:51:00 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 18


In article <[e-mail]>, Jon Roland writes:

>Most of the new material consisted of audiotapes of interviews with
>witnesses who were not identified but who sounded convincing, about the
>involvement of relatives in government coverup of its relationship and
>activities involving UFOs and aliens. The first was with the alleged
>"husband of the daughter-in-law of a recently deceased high NASA
>official", both of whom were not identified.

Isn't that simply the NASA official's son ?

-Sean.
---
[e-mail] | [e-mail]
[e-mail] | [e-mail]
 -Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatus nunc-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Ray Rosch)
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 20:29:30 GMT
Lines: 15


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Gorski) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?
>>

    The SR-71 was introduced to the public by President LB Johnson in the
mid 1960's - '66? at the 'skunkworks'


****
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer
****
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From: [e-mail] (John Blasik)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 22:51:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Lines: 1

Gary, why does your period (.) key stick?
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6647 alt.conspiracy:16096 sci.skeptic:26375 talk.religion.newage:10521
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News administrator)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 21:57:47 GMT
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

> [] doing...If [] again...When [] dick...Then [] government...I []
> be...I [] cross-eyed...The [] hospital...It [] that...Maybe []
> tonight...The [] destroyed...Utterly [] it...

([] denotes where I deleted stuff)

ding-ding-ding-ding -- We've just had a winner in the "Posting With
The Most Ellipses Per Line" category.  Gary has set a NEW WORLD'S
RECORD with a stunning 0.61 !!

This guy sounds like a paranoid cross between Zippy The Pinhead and
Chris Peterson from "Get A Life."

Better yet, I bet Gary is really an elisp program that generates these
postings when somebody hits ctrl-X meta-7.

(Damn, I suppose he's going to sue me too.)

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  WHO sees a BEACH BUNNY
Rosemount Inc.                                |sobbing on a SHAG RUG?!
                                              |
[e-mail]                 |
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 00:59:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes...
>So basically,  I guess we never actually landed on the moon.  I cant prove it.
>Can anyone out there (besides you NASA employees) prove it??
>
>Brick

What would you accept as proof, short of Moon rocks in your hand?
And yes, I could show that those rocks are not likely of Earth origin.

There are also the retro-reflectors left on the Lunar surface. All you need is
a big laser, and a way to detect the reflection.

-Tom R.   milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!cluster!swift!peg!qolight
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Repor
Message-ID: <422800032@peg>
Date: 25 Jun 92 08:19:00 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]>
Lines: 11
Nf-ID: #R:[e-mail]:-1070470575:peg:422800032:000:276
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!qolight    Jun 25 03:19:00 1992


dear Rod Beckwith....

A sincere thanks for the chuckle @ 3:20am here in Melbourne
Australia...
.....Ah the Illusion of Knowledge..... A reminder that true
scientific wisdom come's to those who know how to say.....

        I Don't Know...........

Regards (No Fancy Sig) Photon
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com
From: [e-mail] (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 21:36:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: glinda

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Ford) writes:
>
>UFOs DO exist. I am a pilot and can honestly say I have seen a few. The thing
>I cannot decide apon is weather these UFOs are regular aircraft that for some
>reason appear distorted, or secret milatary aircraft that shouldn't be
>recognised, or genuine extra terreatrial space/aircraft. I fall into cat.3

David, when a true believer says "ufo" he means "an alien spacecraft", he does
NOT mean "an unidentified flying object that might possibly be an alien space-
craft but might also be a weather balloon.  That's why I never capitalize the
word "ufo", and I pronounce it "you-foe".  We really need a word that means
what "UFO" used to, the way you used it above, but let's face it, "ufo" has
been annexed.  I'd suggest NAO, for Non-categorized Ariel Object.  Sounds more
neutral and less mysterious.

Larry Smith ([e-mail]) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Daily I'd go over to Congress - that grand old benevolent national asylum - and
report on the inmates there.  Never seen a body of men with tongues more handy,
or information more uncertain.  If one of those men had been present when the
Diety was on the point of saying "Let there be light" we never would've had it.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6651 alt.conspiracy:16103 sci.skeptic:26379 talk.religion.newage:10522
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From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 00:42:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 18

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>I am up late tonight, and just thought I would let you all know what I am
>planning on doing...If and when I get the real Joan back, we are going to
>go back to Tallahassee together again...When I get there, I will
>immediately file a complaint with the police against the hospital that cut
>up my dick...Then I will look around for a lawyer who will help me with my
>lawsuit against all the hospitals and the government...I don't really care

Unfortunately Gary, your lawyer has already been cloned, so you don't have
a chance.

Rhys.

P.S: :-)
--
Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
[e-mail]  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!gstimp
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 19:15:29 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 9

Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
Hmm..

Gary

;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6653 alt.conspiracy:16112 sci.skeptic:26393
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.n
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <[e-mail]> <1992Jun25.215747.490@rosevax.
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 04:32:20 GMT
Lines: 20


>    [Lots of Gary Stollman bashing left out]

Gary seems to be something of a tradition around here.  (Lord knows, we
can't get rid of him).  Every week or two he posts one of his INVASION!!!
storys and half a dozen people go GaryBashing.  Now, I don't pretend to
BELIEVE him, (I admit, I once heard a wierd phone click when I was calling
for a ride home and I went `oh, no, it's the clones!  Hee, hee.') but,
since there's no convincing the dude, maybe whe shouldn't make attacks on
his person.  I have it on good authority (his) that he was in the mental
hospital at least twice, so maybe we should give the dude a break.  And
suggest he take his stuff to alt.conspiracys, they'd like it.  Sci.skeptic
is kind of a bad forum for him.

>>  "And sue the hospital that cut up my dick." [something like that]

<grabbing peepee> Eeeeew!  Ow!

Big Al  Who doesn't have their signature obnoxious enough yet.
(that's Parody, laughing WITH him.  I hope)
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 03:09:34 EDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
> Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
> make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
> Hmm..
>
> Gary
>
> ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
> ;E-mail: [e-mail]
> ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

Un-huh, and your name is Gary! And ends with an -n-. (OH NO, Not ANOTHER
CLONE!)

*GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU HAVE AIDS!*

:)



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 07:48:21 GMT
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
>Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
>make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
>Hmm..

Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS?

                            -- K.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh
From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 10:19:29 GMT
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
>Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
>make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
...
>;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64

Hey, amazing!  Your names are practically identical!
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6657 sci.skeptic:26408 alt.paranormal:5332
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 12:48:30 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]> <422800031@peg> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Kretmar,



 Where do you get this information?Please respond.....

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6658 alt.conspiracy:16125 sci.skeptic:26409 talk.religion.newage:10527
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jmd9888
From: THE PEOPLE OF THE NET
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Sender: [e-mail] (DURHAM, JAMES MICHAEL)
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 13:43:00 GMT
Lines: 20

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>> I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN
>> I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING
>> REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!!
>>
>>         Gary Stollman
>>
>>  This is from
>>      [e-mail]
>> who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

To The Garys of the world;

      I am not sure what it is that you are trying to do....I could care less.
However I am concerned when you fell the need for attention and the only why
that you can get it is through this pathetic cry.

Please stay off the net, your obnoxious even with out a signature.

Michael Durham
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu!useret4
From: me
Subject: a different look
Message-ID: <#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Temp3 Usere)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 14:16:35 GMT
Lines: 15

the only thing this group is doing is trying to fight over things that it
doesn't know about.  Everything about NASA and reports of ufos can't be
proven so you are all beating a dead horse.  I believe that there are aliens
and unfortunately I belive that I have been abducted.  (If I am right it it the
scariest experience not because what they do, which is bad, but that you have no
 controll over it and can't tell when it will happen next).  I would use hypnosi
s but what if I found out it is true.  What can I do to stop it again?

But then again maybe there are no such things as aliens and I just had a very ba
d dream...  The same dream my brother has...

only thing I know is I am scared.

me

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6660 alt.conspiracy:16131 sci.skeptic:26431 talk.religion.newage:10529
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!cunews!revcan!software.mitel.com!meier
From: [e-mail] (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <12135@rehder>
Date: 26 Jun 92 13:46:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:

>This guy sounds like a paranoid cross between Zippy The Pinhead and
>Chris Peterson from "Get A Life."
>--
>Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  WHO sees a BEACH BUNNY
>Rosemount Inc.                                |sobbing on a SHAG RUG?!

You don't get it.

How incredible do Gary's postings have to get before you realize that
they are a parody of the UFO/alien/invasion cult scene?

Heiress to the Vaseline fortune?  If that isn't a clue for you then
I don't know what is.

_____________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier                    Mitel Corporation
       "Everything You Know Is Wrong"
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6661 sci.skeptic:26432 alt.paranormal:5333
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!bagate!baarsa!bb6d9cj
From: [e-mail] (Kretmar)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 15:30:41 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]> <422800031@peg> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Bell Atlantic
Lines: 111

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:

>Kretmar,



> Where do you get this information?Please respond.....

>Rod


The time indicated was a joke, sorry, however, events are currently taking
place that will include a greater understanding of UFO's and direct
contact with "Space Brothers".  These events center around the emergence
of a world teacher, Maitreya.

    *** Re - Post of information regarding Maitreya ****

All the great religions posit the idea of a further revelation to be
given by a future teacher.  Christians hope for the return of the
Christ, the Buddhists look for the coming of another Buddha (the
Lord Maitreya), while Muslims await the Imam Mahdi, the
Hindus a reincarnation of Krishna, and the Jews the Messiah.

   Students of the esoteric tradition know all these as different
names for the same individual - the Lord Maitreya, the World
Teacher, the head of the Spiritual Hierarchy of Masters, and they
look for His imminent return now.

   According the British artist, esotericist and author Benjamin Creme,
Maitreya emerged from His centre in the Himalayas in July 1977.  At
that time he took up residence in the Pakistani-Indian community
of London.  Since this time he has been preparing for the time
when he will be able to appear openly in the world.

   Maitreya does not intend to build a new religion around Himself,
nor to create followers, but to teach humanity "the art of Self-
realization".  The first steps are "honesty of mind, sincerity of
spirit and detachment."

   Maitreya's immediate priorities are an adequate supply of the
right food, adequate housing and shelter for all, healthcare and
education as a universal right.  His social message can be summarized
in a few words: "Share and save the world."

   Benjamin Creme receives his information through a telepathic
rapport he shares with a senior member of the hierarchy of the
Masters of Wisdom of which Maitreya is the head.  He has been trained
for his role in the reappearance since 1959.  Their are also two journalists,
Patricia Pitchon and Brian James, working independently, who have
interviews with one of Maitreya's close associates.  They provide
forecasts of world events given by Maitreya.

   Many events which we see today are a direct result of the outflow of
energy into the world from Maitreya.  These include the wave of
freedom breaking out around the world demonstrated by the destruction
of the Berlin wall and the recent events in the Soviet Union as well
as many other occurences in different counties.  There are also various
spiritual signs for those who need them.  Beginning in California and
now in various places around the world "Crosses of Light" are appearing
in household windows.  There is an outbrake of weeping statues and pictures
in many places around the world.  Also, visions of the Virgin Mary are becoming
more numerous and reported by the media.

   Maitreya has also appeared to many people himself.  On June 11th, 1988
Maitreya appeared miraculously, `out of the blue', at an open air prayer/
healing meeting in Nairobi, Kenya.  He was photographed addressing (in their
own language) thousands of people who instantly recognized Him as the Christ.
The occurence was reported on by CNN, and two of Japan's largest newspapers.
He now plans to show Himself in this way to large numbers of people in
different counties around the world.

   He has already made various appearances in front of large crowds
recently.  On September 29th, 1991 and January 29th, 1992 he appeared
in front of 500-600 people at religious meetings in Mexico City.  On
March 1st, 1992 he appeared in Moscow, Russia in front of 700
Orthodox Catholics.  In each case he spoke to them in their own
language.  In Moscow 600 of the people believed he was the Christ,
also pictures weCasey Kretmarthe local media was notified.  Most
recently on Sunday March 22th he appeared in Germany.

   Maitreya has been pleased with the reactions of his appearances
and plans to continue this effort.  He expects this to lead to
reports of his presence in a greater scale and pressure by the
public on the media to investigate his presence.   This will lead
to the "Day of Declaration".  On this day, the satellites will hook
up all the networks of the world and Maitreya will appear on TV.
We will all see his face on the screen but he will communicate to
everyone telepathically, in his/her own language, and let us know
why he is here.  It will then be up to us to decide whether or not
we will accept his help.  If we do accept his help he will guide us
but it is us who will have to change the world into a more equitable
place inplace of one in which millions of people starve in a
world of plenty.


*************Disclaimer**********************

This post in no way relflects the opinions of
Bell Atlantc or New Jersey Bell

********************************************


>--
>Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
>[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
>                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!news.dell.com!dellunix!uudell!bigtex!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 03:07:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 32
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>In my opinion, the most serious problem for long-term underground dwelling
>(millions-billions of years) is not materials waste, but heat waste.
>
>If your civilization depends upon the heat differential between the core
>of the planet and the surface for its energy needs, then it must not heat
>the planetary surface at a faster rate than the heat can be dissipated
>by the surface
>
>Presumably there is already a heat transfer occuring naturally as heat
>diffuses from the core to the surface.  In order to obtain work one
>would have to perform additional heat transfer, resulting in a higher
>surface temperature.
>For small amounts of work the effect would be negligible
>Then add to this the energy requirements of the daily life of this
>hypothetical civilization (such as transportation, manufacturing, etc.).

Some good points, but the projected energy requirements for my proposed
starship-cities would be fairly low. Very little transportation or
manufacturing would be needed.

It would help if the planet had surface water or an atmosphere to carry
away waste heat, but even those things are not essential. It would be
possible to build such cities under even such harsh conditions as those
that prevail on Venus. Very small energy gradients would be sufficient.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Jun 92 02:53:13 GMT
References: <#[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 74
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>As it turns out, the best places in the Universe for life to flourish
>>(although not to first appear) are the interiors of planetary bodies
>>that contain enough radioisotopes to maintain a long-duration thermal
>>gradient between their molten interiors and their surfaces, not the
>>surfaces of planets, or asteroids in deep space

>While this would provide a self-heating enviornment, I have a question.
>Where will they get fresh water and food? I am not aware of any way to
>produce organics from rock

There may be some regions of the galaxy deficient in metals, which are
needed in trace amounts for life, and in larger amounts for a technical
economy, and small planets close to stars may be deficient in readily-
accessible volatiles, like hydrogen and oxygen, but it can be expected
that in most regions of the galaxy, and in planetary systems beyond a
certain distance, suitable abundances of necessary elements would prevail.
A carbonaceous chondrite is rock, but grind it up and it would make good
soil and support a carbon cycle. Most planets will probably be covered by
a thick layer of frozen volatiles, including water, ammonia, and methane.

Of course, a planet deficient in metals would also not have a molten
interior or a thermal gradient to support life.

>>also possible that it could be done using more conventional physics
>>through a process I call bosonic propulsion, in which an entire vehicle
>>would be put into a bosonic state, like the Cooper pairs of electrons
>>in superconductivity, so that they could pass between their underground
>>cities and outer space without having to have access ports through the
>>ground, and, indeed, to be invisible while traveling in that mode.
>>Such a life-style would probably leave no trace on the surfaces of the
>>planets they inhabit, unless there was some side-effect like crop
>>circles.
>
>Do you really think that this is the case, or are you just speculating
>out loud? (so to speak)

It is informed speculation, based on a working knowledge of the physical
theory. I have run it by more advanced physicists, who have not come back
with any immediate rejection of the possibility on theoretical grounds.

>>We could have a million underground alien cities, each housing a
>>million aliens, and never know it if they chose not to reveal
>>themselves.  They could have been here for billions of years.
>
>If they are organic, what do they eat? And where does a billion years
>of waste go? Re-cycling is not 100% efficient, there must be some
>waste, and some requirement for new materials.

As I have proposed in other postings, near-100% recycling efficiency is
possible and is recommended for future starship-cities, whether traveling
through space or stationed on a planet. Such efficiency is easier if
the cities are sited underground. It does not require radically new
technology, just good design and careful operation.

>It would seem to me that -if- such an ET race had gone
>to all the trouble to get here, they would likely show -some- interest
>in the local's, even if they considered them to be animals.

They may not need to reveal themselves to study us, and indeed, we might
lose much of our value as subjects if they did. Less mature members of
their communities (their "kids") might be less attentive to this protocol.

>Rich    (wondering abour the "Starflight Corporation")

The Starflight Corporation is my computer consulting firm.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6664 sci.skeptic:26438 alt.paranormal:5334
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 18:18:33 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]> <422800031@peg> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

HA?HA?

Thanks for the quick response.Although there seems to be more joking on this
group than serious research. Oh well...........can't teach an old dog new tricks. Then again Rome wasn't built over night.

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6665 sci.skeptic:26440 alt.paranormal:5335
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From: [e-mail] (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: End-of-the-world messiahs? (Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 18:25:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: LLNL
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: s1.gov


Buddhist Maitreya == Hindu Krishna == Muslim Mahdi == Jesus Christ's
Second Coming...

    I think that this identification will be a big surprise to
advocates of some of these creeds. Christian Fundies certainly do not
think that Jesus Christ is any of these other folk, to put it mildly.
The same for Muslims about the Imam Mahdi.

    And what will happen for Marxists? Will Karl Marx, Friedrich
Engels, and Vladimir Lenin rise from the dead?

    And what about religions without prophesied messiahs, which
include most pagan ones?

    Was there a classical Greek Messiah? An Old Norse Messiah? An
Egyptian Messiah? A Mesopotamian Messiah? And Hinduism itself? Its
earliest works are rather short on Messiah figures.

    And let us not forget the Native American Ghost Dance. This
movement, which started among late 19th cy. Midwestern Native
Americans whose land had been overrun and whose buffalo had been
slaughtered, taught that NA's should reject the Palefaces' ways,
especially alcohol. Its rituals involved dancing to commune with the
ghosts of the dear departed ancestors, and also to get a glimpse of
the future -- a world in which all those Palefaces would be gotten rid
of. Some of the Ghost Dancers thought that the ghost shirts that they
danced in were bulletproof, only to receive an unpleasant surprise
when confronted with actual bullets.

    (Yes, I know, I know, this movement sounds like Sister Souljah :-)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 18:46:13 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>It would help if the planet had surface water or an atmosphere to carry
>away waste heat, but even those things are not essential. It would be
>possible to build such cities under even such harsh conditions as those
>that prevail on Venus. Very small energy gradients would be sufficient.

No, the heat has to escape the whole planet, which means anything between
the planet and the vacuum of space is not helping, it is acting as an
insulator to keep the heat in.  Planets cool by radiating.  Atmospheres
reflect/absorb radiation at varying rates, depending on the elements
and densities in the atmosphere.

And I still maintain that the biggest bill will be tha airconditioning
bill.

>Very little transportation or manufacturing would be needed.

OK, you posit an advanced civilization whose very survival depends on
massive heat engines and airconditioning, as well as all sorts of other
devices (for farming, for recreation, for excavation, etc.)  The entire
environment would be 100% artificial.  Then you say, "Very little
transportation or manufacturing would be needed."

I don't think you have a very realistic concept of the energy requirements
of a civilization in which not "very little," but everything, is manufactured.


--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 18:52:32 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
                                 [...]
>It is informed speculation, based on a working knowledge of the physical
>theory. I have run it by more advanced physicists, who have not come back
>with any immediate rejection of the possibility on theoretical grounds.

I'm afraid that theoretical physics is not going to help you much when
attempting to understand if it is feasible to build a huge comglomeration
of technology such as you are suggesting.  This is an engineering problem
(Actually an incredibly large number of engineering problems).
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEM
Date: 26 Jun 1992 00:35:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Sean Eaton) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, Jon Roland writes:
>
>>Most of the new material consisted of audiotapes of interviews with
>>witnesses who were not identified but who sounded convincing, about the
>>involvement of relatives in government coverup of its relationship and
>>activities involving UFOs and aliens. The first was with the alleged
>>"husband of the daughter-in-law of a recently deceased high NASA
>>official", both of whom were not identified.
>
>Isn't that simply the NASA official's son ?

No, apparently the daughter-in-law remarried, and her new husband became
friends with the father of his wife's previous husband.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard
From: [e-mail] (James J. Lippard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 19:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: skyblu.26JUN199212554296
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
>>I am up late tonight, and just thought I would let you all know what I am
>>planning on doing...If and when I get the real Joan back, we are going to
>>go back to Tallahassee together again...When I get there, I will
>>immediately file a complaint with the police against the hospital that cut
>>up my dick...Then I will look around for a lawyer who will help me with my
>>lawsuit against all the hospitals and the government...I don't really care
>
>Unfortunately Gary, your lawyer has already been cloned, so you don't have
>a chance.

Don't pay any attention to all that talk of complaints and lawsuits--that's
the fake Gary talking.  You can tell by the clicking noise your computer
makes right before the message comes up.

Jim Lippard              [e-mail]
Dept. of Philosophy      [e-mail]
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!msus1.msus.edu!news
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (John)
Date: 26 Jun 92 16:16:27 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: msus
Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu
Lines: 11

One of the Blackbird pilots is from here, a brother
of one of our staff members.  From what I've heard,
there was little thrill in flying one of them but
a great thrill to say you _have_ flown one.  It
appears that all attention is to the instruments
(why'd they even put a window on this thing?) and
that at speed the plane's altitute could vacillate
as much as 3,000 feet.  (His name is Sam Gudmonson.)

more trivia, humm.

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6671 sci.skeptic:26457 alt.paranormal:5336
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ncar!noao!arizona!tzf
From: [e-mail] (Theron Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: End-of-the-world messiahs? (Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 21:45:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
|>

|>     And what will happen for Marxists? Will Karl Marx, Friedrich
|> Engels, and Vladimir Lenin rise from the dead?
|>
|>     And what about religions without prophesied messiahs, which
|> include most pagan ones?
|>
|>     Was there a classical Greek Messiah? An Old Norse Messiah? An
|> Egyptian Messiah? A Mesopotamian Messiah? And Hinuism itself? Its
|> earliest works are rather short on Messiah figures.
|>

..... a truly big-hearted messiah would redeem everyone, whether they
wanted to believe in Her or not.


So Benjamin Creme is still around is he? He was going around lecturing in
the mid '80's about Maitreya's imminent (re-)appearance. But the day when
he was supposed to make himself known and simultaneously broadcast on
all networks, to each in hir own language, was well before 1985 (Hmm, my
memory for exact dates is dim: I may have heard him lecture even before
1980, in which case the predicted arrival might have even been in the
late '70's). Anyhow, the announced date came & went, no Maitreya nohow.
Finally Creme held a press conference, announced that instead of going
public as originally announced Maitreya had alit in the immigrant
communities in London and expected the world's reporters to come and
hunt him out.
    I was dragged to a Creme lecture by one of my friends, and he
was quite explicit about a "no later than" date when Maitreya would
manifest - I may forget the dates (hey, who bothers to remember no-shows?)
but am definite about the promises. And the missed deadline. As I remember,
a little (usually not very skeptical) publication titled "New Age" or
"New Age Journal" had an article or two during and after the missed
appearance, in case anyone is interested in looking it up.

    - terry friedman
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6672 alt.conspiracy:16153 sci.skeptic:26458 talk.religion.newage:10530
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 18:44:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 12

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

> I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN
> I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING
> REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!!
>
        Be still, my beating heart...

Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 21:06:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 72

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>
|>
|>
|> From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
|>
|> I think he posted it because you asked about hard evidence, and
|> >this is one area in the subject of UFO's where there is hard
|> >evidence (not of the existence of extraterrestrials per-se -
|> >but of a lot of surreptiteous scurrying around by US intelligence
|> >personel who seem very paranoid about people who believe in them).
|> >The evidence is documented through official FOA reports from the
|> >government.  Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is obscure
|> >about the connection?
|>
|>    Because he didn't make one!   He didn't offer any evidence
|>    that the government has any special interest in UFO research,
|>    *per se*.   As I said before, there is nothing startling about
|>    the government having a special interest in people who snoop
|>    around Air Force bases with sophisticated camera or video
|>    equipment, or who are constantly filing for FOIA documents
|>    related to same.
|>
|>    Moreover, we have, and have had in the past, a very snoopy
|>    government who maintain files on all kinds of groups and
|>    individuals.  I'll bet most of us who post anything political
|>    or controversial on Usenet, or who have been activist members
|>    of any of a number of political or special interest organizations
|>    have files somewhere in Washington.  So this proves nothing about
|>    any connection with UFO's.
|>
|>
|>
|>    And to the other poster who thought we'd never been to the moon --
|>
|>    When UFO enthusiasts come up with video footage as good as NASA
|>    provided, come up with a story credible enough to fool all the
|>    major networks, provide physical evidence as good as the "moon
|>    rocks" that NASA came up with, and leave other physical evidence
|>    as good as the LASER inferometer left on the moon that any lab
|>    with a decent LASER can get a bounce from, then get back to us.
|>    Until then:  get real!
|>
|>
|>
|> ---peter
|>
|>
|>

Guys,  (I'm still playing devils advocate)

You still dont show me proof!

 You say that, *they say* there is a laser inferometer left on the moon.

 Prove to me that we left something on the moon.

You are telling me what other people say is so.

As for the video footage  as good as NASA's.   Don't you think that they could

manufacture that kind of fake footage??

I've seen soom really good fake UFO picts.  But they are made to look real.


Still no proof has been demonstrated, by you, the general public, that we have been

on the moon...

Brick
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 21:18:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:
|>
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes...
|> >So basically,  I guess we never actually landed on the moon.  I cant prove it.
|> >Can anyone out there (besides you NASA employees) prove it??
|> >
|> >Brick
|>
|> What would you accept as proof, short of Moon rocks in your hand?
|> And yes, I could show that those rocks are not likely of Earth origin.

Devil advocate:   Could these rocks be manufactured here on earth, and stated that
          these are the *kind* of rock that are *really* on the moon?
          Because, we, the general public, would never be able to prove
          that these rocks didnt come from the moon.

|>
|> There are also the retro-reflectors left on the Lunar surface. All you need is
|> a big laser, and a way to detect the reflection.

DA:           Who's to say that there aren't natural rocks on the moon
            that could reflect laser light back to earth?

|>
|> -Tom R.   milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph


We still haven't proved that we have been to the moon.

Brick
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!ricevm1.rice.edu!LINSCOT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen M. Linscott)
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Rice University, Houston, TX
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 23:09:15 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:

>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:
>|>
>|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes...
>|>
     [stuff deleted]
>
>
>We still haven't proved that we have been to the moon.
>
>Brick
>

Brick - Can you prove (ON THE NETWORK) that you exist?

                                    - Steve -
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!palmj
From: [e-mail] (Jyri L. Palm)
Subject: NASA UFO video on Larry King
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1992 01:05:51 GMT
Lines: 7

I hope this gets posted in time to alert some people...the NASA UFO thing
is going to be covered on Larry King about 9:25 PM on CNN.

Details to follow after the show...

This is tonight...now...Friday June 26...

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6677 alt.conspiracy:16162 sci.skeptic:26476 talk.religion.newage:10531
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News administrator)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
References: <12135@rehder>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 23:35:40 GMT
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Rolf Meier) writes:
: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:
:
: >This guy sounds like a paranoid cross between Zippy The Pinhead and
: >Chris Peterson from "Get A Life."
:
: You don't get it.
:
: How incredible do Gary's postings have to get before you realize that
: they are a parody of the UFO/alien/invasion cult scene?
:

I got it.

Like Zippy and Chris aren't parodies?  I realized after the second
posting that Gary's INVASION stuff is satire, but it's more fun if you
play along a little.

On the other hand, there's no rule that prevents schizophrenics from
having access to usenet either, so I must admit that there is a very
slim chance that Gary believes what he posts.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I'm having an EMOTIONAL
Rosemount Inc.                                |OUTBURST!!  But, uh, WHY is
                                              |there a WAFFLE in my PAJAMA
[e-mail]                 |POCKET??
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!uwm.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jun 92 22:23:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 44
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
>
>  > But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground,
>  > then
>  > it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages.  Every
>  > researcher
>  > will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as
>  > much
>  > control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's
>  > Stone
>  > of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be).
>  >
>  > I find it rather disgusting.  It does nothing to garner abductionists
>  > the
>  > legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the
>  > impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want
>  > us
>  > to believe.
>
> I second this.
>
> Mike
>
If I understand correctly, the reason for the closed and secretive nature
of the conference at MIT was because of the generally hostile environment
for people who claim abductions. That hostility includes, of course,
ridicule, announcements that it couldn't possibly have happened, et al.
Perhaps the way to insure that research doesn't become fragmented and
non-legitimate is to work on the present climate surrounding people
who go public about their experiences.

I think we see the same syndrome on this net. I have spoken privately
with a number of people by e-mail who would not post their experiences
on the net because of the rude and intolerant debunkers and nay-sayers.

The bottom line, IMHO,is that vigorous debunking actually destroys data.
IN the sense that it prevents those who have it from making it
available.

Regards, Lou Crago
> --
> Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
> UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
> INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 19:50:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 19:52:22 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 19:54:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
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Lines: 2

CONTOL C
OK
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 20:01:50 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6683 sci.skeptic:26477
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: VCR Alert: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live"
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 03:18:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 27


Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic)
and Larry Eckert of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live"
(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged
"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If
you saw the show, you know who won the debate.

According to my TV listings, "Larry King Live" will be repeated from
1-2 AM PDT (4-5 AM EDT) tomorrow morning. Hopefully it's the same
show. The UFO debate is in the second half.



--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6684 sci.systems:104 alt.society.futures:409
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!ames!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.systems,alt.society.futures
Subject: Starship-Cities (was: Questions from an interested party)
Date: 27 Jun 1992 04:34:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 59
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>It would help if the planet had surface water or an atmosphere to carry
>>away waste heat, but even those things are not essential. It would be
>>possible to build such cities under even such harsh conditions as those
>>that prevail on Venus. Very small energy gradients would be sufficient.
>
>No, the heat has to escape the whole planet, which means anything between
>the planet and the vacuum of space is not helping, it is acting as an
>insulator to keep the heat in.  Planets cool by radiating.  Atmospheres
>reflect/absorb radiation at varying rates, depending on the elements
>and densities in the atmosphere.

Underground cities would create "hot spots" on the surface, not heat the
entire surface, and fluids such as air or water on the surface would disperse
the heat by convection and evaporation, creating a larger radiative area.

>And I still maintain that the biggest bill will be tha airconditioning
>bill.

It indeed would be a significant factor but a manageable one.

>>Very little transportation or manufacturing would be needed.
>
>I don't think you have a very realistic concept of the energy requirements
>of a civilization in which not "very little," but everything, is manufactured.

Designs for such compact cities have been worked out in some detail.
The key is that most subsystems are designed for durability and
complete recovery of wastes. Much of what we manufacture today would be
obviated by the design. No motor vehicles, no highways, no new
shelters, little clothing, no newspapers, no disposable containers, no
pet products, no paper mail, no household air conditioners, few if any
aircraft, little furniture, only a few replacement applicances and
consumer electronics and optics, few baby products, no paper books, no
printers, copiers, or fax machines, no fencing or landscaping products,
little if any luggage, no lumber products, little heavy moving equipment,
little packaging products, no pest control products, no film-photographic
products, few plastic products, no smoking products, ...

Indeed, if you go through the Yellow Pages of any large city, you will
find few occupations that will have any place in such cities. Mostly those
requiring advanced professional skills. Most of the things most of us
do for a living are based on the prevail pattern of scattered living, as
are most of the ways we are depleting critical resources and destroying
the environment.

This subject has been discussed in more detail in the newsgroups
sci.environment, sci.systems, and alt.society.futures. If there is
sufficient interest, I can post a list of sources of further information
on this subject.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6685 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1810
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Bosonic Transport (was: Questions from an interested party)
Date: 27 Jun 1992 04:42:05 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 29
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>                                 [...]
>>It is informed speculation, based on a working knowledge of the physical
>>theory. I have run it by more advanced physicists, who have not come back
>>with any immediate rejection of the possibility on theoretical grounds.
>
>I'm afraid that theoretical physics is not going to help you much when
>attempting to understand if it is feasible to build a huge comglomeration
>of technology such as you are suggesting.  This is an engineering problem
>(Actually an incredibly large number of engineering problems).

No, but theoretical objections can at least help us avoid fruitless lines
of inquiry. In the absence of such objections, one can feel assured that
thoughts along this line may someday lead to something useful.

In any case, an idea doesn't have to be good to be useful. Some of the best
scientific ideas were bad ideas that inspired the development of good ideas.

If there is interest in this subject of bosonic transport, I can post a
more detailed discussion of the idea.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6686 alt.conspiracy:16169 sci.skeptic:26479 talk.religion.newage:10532
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc
From: [e-mail] (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1992 04:29:52 GMT
Lines: 11

grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:

: On the other hand, there's no rule that prevents schizophrenics from
: having access to usenet either, so I must admit that there is a very
: slim chance that Gary believes what he posts.

One never knows, does one? :)  He just might! :)
--
Ed Carp        [e-mail]    <-- preferred email address!
"In wildness is the preservation of the world."  - John Muir
** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :)
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!gstimp
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 00:38:01 CST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 27

[e-mail] writes:

> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ga
> > Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
> > make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
> > Hmm..
> >
> > Gary
> >
>
> Un-huh, and your name is Gary! And ends with an -n-. (OH NO, Not ANOTHER
> CLONE!)
>
> *GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU HAVE AIDS!*
>
> :)

Shut up, you're ruining the plan!

Gary

PS: I'm really a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone..
:-)

;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6688 sci.skeptic:26495
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re: VCR Alert: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live"
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 11:36:17 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 39

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:


>Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic)
>and Larry Eckert of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live"
>(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged
>"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If
>you saw the show, you know who won the debate.

>According to my TV listings, "Larry King Live" will be repeated from
>1-2 AM PDT (4-5 AM EDT) tomorrow morning. Hopefully it's the same
>show. The UFO debate is in the second half.



>--
>
>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>

Hmm,
why are these announcement not posted earlier, so everybody interested
in UFOs ahs a chance to watch it !
Over here we do get CNN on our Cable system in Berlin, Germany,
so please could somebody post such announcement earlier, when there is
something about UFOs on CNN ?
I missed it !

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: BOB LAZAR?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 16:52:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 59

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>Hello anybody,
>
>Has anyone done any further checking on Bob Lazars' background? I was curious if
>anyone has any information on him,good,bad or whatever.Any info would be appreciated. Also,has anyone seen the video that he put together on the advanced technology that he alledgedly worked on?
>


      I did find this posted somewhere:





Robert Lazar Court Case Results
_______________________________

  Las Vegas Physicist Robert Lazar has sucessfully obtained his W-2 form
from Naval Intelligence which verifies his formal employment with them but
this isn't helping his court case much....
  Originally scheduled for August 6, his sentencing was postponed to August
13th and once more delayed until August 17th.  Lazar, with no known criminal
record, could have been sentenced to up to 6 years in the Nevada State
Prison.  Lazar first gained attention by publicly disclosing claims of his
one-time involvement in UFO/ET projects in the reputed S-4 section of
"Dreamland" [aka, The Skunk Works, Area 51] in the Nevada desert, a highly
protected test site of the U.S.' advanced military craft.  Lazar says he was
hired by the military to replace a member of the crew which was working on
a extraterrestrial spacecraft.  The Physicist whom Lazar was replacing was
allegedly killed in a nuclear mishap resulting from a bomb test utilizing
the fuel "115" used by one of the extraterrestrial ships.  Lazar left the
program out of disgust over the plodding pace of the program.
  Then trouble with the law began.  As a result of a plea bargain with the
  Clark County District Attorney, Lazar pleaded guilty to one charge of
pandering, for admitting that he set up a computer, programmed the software,
and helped install a security system for an operating brothel in Clark
County.  While prostitution is legal in some areas of Nevada, it is illegal
in Clark County.
  Lazar was given 6 months probation for the charge of pandering but for
some reason, his passpost was taken away from him and never returned.
Early on, Lazar was being charged with having manufactured methamphetimines
but this charge was thrown out of court during the preliminary hearings.

-> Virtual Reality Info. BBS         <---- offline 8/91
   206.323.7578 - 14,400 BPS
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6690 sci.skeptic:26502
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live"
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 17:25:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 42

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>
>Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic)
>and [Don] Ecker of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live"
>(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged
>"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If


OK, now I have seen the show, and the "famous" NASA UFO video. Gee,
I was absolutely UNDERWHELMED by the "UFO"! It is so obviously a tiny
piece of debris floating alongside the orbiter. Then there is a flash,
representing either a water dump or the brief firing of an attitude-
control thruster (both frequent). The piece of debris is pushed outward
from the craft by the force of this. A few seconds later, a second piece
is also pushed outward. (That's the "secret weapon sent up to intercept
it!".) Anyone who thinks that these little pieces of debris are "alien
spacecraft" is ready to enlist in the funny farm.

Ecker came on strong against Oberg in prosecutorial form, asking him
questions that imply his role in a "government cover-up." Larry King
had to restrain Ecker several times.

Please, UFOlogists, help out the "debunkers". Jump on the
bandwagon of this "NASA UFO Video," and proclaim it's "genuine evidence"
of aliens! Then everyone will be able to see how credulous you
really are! :)


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!shoup
From: [e-mail] (Richard Shoup)
Subject: Seeking victims of alien abduction
Message-ID: <88vl#q=[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 20:17:08 GMT
Organization: netcom
Keywords: alien abduction
Lines: 20

[I am posting this for a friend.  Please do not reply to me, but
to her at the phone number given below.  Thanks.]

----------------------

ABDUCTED?
    Did you have a frightening experience?
    Does not being believed make it worse?
I want to help.

I am researching the social and psychological aftermath of UFO
abduction.  I will hear your story with respect and kindness and
a sympathetic ear.  You will have absolute confidentiality.
Help me to translate your experience into words that help both you
and others to better understand what you are going through.

Please call me now.

Lisa Gladstone, 408-288-7554.

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Jun 92 22:01:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stephen M. Linscott) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>
|> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|>
|> >
|> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:
|> >|>
|> >|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes...
|> >|>
|>      [stuff deleted]
|> >
|> >
|> >We still haven't proved that we have been to the moon.
|> >
|> >Brick
|> >
|>
|> Brick - Can you prove (ON THE NETWORK) that you exist?
|>
|>                                     - Steve -


Good one, Steve... Quick, Inventive.  I give it a...(7.5).

Brick
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6693 sci.skeptic:26509
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: VCR Alert: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live"
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1992 22:38:19 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>Hmm,
>why are these announcement not posted earlier, so everybody interested
>in UFOs ahs a chance to watch it !
>Over here we do get CNN on our Cable system in Berlin, Germany,
>so please could somebody post such announcement earlier, when there is
>something about UFOs on CNN ?
>I missed it !

Well, the television listings frequently don't give enough detail for someone
to know what topic is going to be discussed until he watches the show.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Jun 92 05:05:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 7

Good news spacefans. Many years ago we thought that when more than
50% of the people believed in UFOs then the government would tell
what they knew about UFOs. A few years back we reached 51% but no
word from the government. Now 79% of the people in American believe
in UFOs but no word yet although they are leaking a little bit of the
truth (The Intruders).
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!mips!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Jun 92 14:54:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Sorry about those postings with nothing on them.  I have a lot of this
information on floppy disk and am having difficulty posting it. I'll have
someone help me to get it on but in the present I'll just type it out.
The following  is from Sharri.
MYSTERIOUS MARKINGS ON EARTH'S SURFACE.
Well, it's quite a delight being with everyone again, and tonight's
topic is the Mysterious Markings on the Earth's Surface.
I would like to welcome you all to this recording and without further
ado let's just go straight into our lecture. Thank you.
And so these markings are not necessarily circular markings in the
{corn} fields that many of you ahve seen on Unsolved Mysteries and
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Jun 92 18:07:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Good news spacefans. Many years ago we thought that when more than
>50% of the people believed in UFOs then the government would tell
>what they knew about UFOs. A few years back we reached 51% but no
>word from the government. Now 79% of the people in American believe
>in UFOs but no word yet although they are leaking a little bit of the
>truth (The Intruders).
>John Winston.

Saying that one "believes" in UFO's is about as usefull as saying
that one believes in peanut butter. Penut butter exists, any belief I
may have in the matter is irrelevant.

And similiarly, people see things in the sky that they cannot
identify. This is a fact, any belief that they do or do not is
irrelevant (gee, I sould like a Borg :^), resistance is futile).

This does show that when the acronym UFO is used, that what is
meant is not Unidentifed Flying Object, but rather Exteraterristrial
Spaceship, or something similiar.

This causes a great deal of confusion. When people mean differently
while using the same word or acronym communication is not the most
likely result.



Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Jun 92 23:33:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 1

C
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Jun 92 23:38:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Yes Rick.  I will agree that UFO does mean different things to
different people.  I think most people take it to mean something
not of our known whole that is coming into our reality.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 13:25:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

I made a mistake.  In place of whole I should have used the word
world.  Sorry about that.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 13:35:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 7

A person by the name of Al C. loaned me copies of the magazine UfO
Journal of Facts (spring and autumn 1991) and it mentioned the fact
a lady from Venus called Omnec Onec lectured in Tucson, Arizona.
She was at the First World UFO Congress on May 7, 1991.
Source of information: The UFO Library, 11684,Ventura Blvd. Suite 708,
Studio City Cal 91604.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 13:51:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

another person that spoke at the First World UFO Congress is a lady
that I know personally by the name of Tarna Halsey.  She lived on Venus
in a previous life. She used to call into the Herb Jepko radion talk
show and was married to a former wrestler called The Crusher who died
a few years back.  Tarna before that time was married to Dr. Wallace
Halsey the nephew to the famous Navy Admiral Bull Halsey of World War
2 fame.  Wallace Halsey was an investigator of UFOs and was seen by
Tarna at The Giant Rock Airport in the presence of a person from space.
Tarna wanted to get a picture of the two of them together and the person
from spaace informed her that she wouldn't be able to get a picture of
him (the spaace man) because he and Wallace had been talking about
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 14:01:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

I can't seem to get this computer to go to the next page so please
be patient with me. As I was saying the space person told her that
she wouldn't be able to get a picture of him because he had been talking
to Wallace about very high thoughts and his frequency was such that he
wouldn't come out on film.  She didn't believe him and sure enough he
only came out as a bright light on film.  Later the space man told her
that she could take a picture of him and it would come out because he
and Wallace had been talking about some normal things. She took the
picture and it did turn out normal.  The space people gave Tarna a lot
of training and later she herself was able to do the same thing.
That's all folks. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 14:35:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6681 sci.skeptic:26489

This seems like a good discussion. May I please put me two cents worth
in this conversation.  Before I was 22 years old ( and I'm 60 now) I didn't
give UFO's a serious thought, then on the sides of an Atlas missile at
Vandenbery AFB in Caif. I got the idea that there was something I had to
find or do.  I went to Alaska and didn't find it and then came back to
the San Francisco Bay Area and met a person that became my teacher. He
taught we many things about UFOs, ESP and other things. To answer one
of your questions as to why UFOs are important to us I believe you'll
find as thousand of people are now finding out that all of us existed
before on other planets and dimensions and it is wake up time.
That's all folks. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Opinion Poll - Intruders
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 14:47:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

You asked what people think about the movie Intruders.  Please let me
tell you what I think about another movie first.  It seems that our
government a few years back wanted to get us ready to meet the space
people by giving us nice movies like Incounters of the Third Kind and
ET.  This was all well and good because at that time our government was
getting along pretty good with the Greys. Now things have changed.  Just
lately we have lost some of our best service men in a fight with the
Grays to try to recapture a certain level in an underground test center
underneath Dulce, New Mexico.  Our Government now wants to tell the
truth about the abductions of the Greys and it is coming out in the
movie Intruders. That's all folks.  John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Seeking victims of alien abduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 15:05:09 GMT
References: <88vl#q=[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

That sounds very interesting.  I recently had an interview with a UfO
study group of people and some of the people had been abducted.  They
also have a therapist that they go to relive these experiences. After
you get through the first few abductions it seem that some of these
people have very good encounters.  Sometimes they find that the people
doing the abducting are actually friends of the abductees and are trying
to get them to wake up to their true identity. I'll pass Lisa's phone
number on to them and the UFO Study Group's number is 408-297-4557.
That's all folks. John Winston. Encounters with Greys are not so good.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj
From: [e-mail] (Alan Jones,AMJ1,)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NASA UFO clip on Larry King Live
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 16:26:15 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Lines: 40
Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com

I finally saw the much discussed NASA UFO clip on Larry King Live last week.  For
those of you who *still* have not seen it, I thought I'd add some more details to
the story.  I am really surprised that some of this had not been brought up before.

1.  The footage takes place when the shuttle is on the dark side of the Earth.
    Thus you can't see any details of Earth, except the brightly lit outline of
    the horizon.  Because of the darkness, the film is quite dark and grainy.

2.  During the 10-15 second clip, you see bright spots above the horizon (some of
    which are surely stars), and about 10 bright spots below the horizon (certainly
    not stars).  These bright spots are of various sizes, but all quite small and
    indistinct, and most of them move throughout the clip.  The size of the objects
    is comparable to the size of the stars above the horizon.  The movement of the
    objects varies in speed and direction.  The object suspected of being a vehicle
    is moving the fastest.

3.  About halfway thru the clip there is a distinct flash to the left.  Immediately
    afterwards, almost all of the objects change their direction and speed.  The
    change is most dramatic for the object suspected of being a vehicle.

4.  Included in the object movement is the appearance of another object which seems
    to "streak" from the lower part of the screen to the top.  The streak to me
    seemed to be a result of the streaking object's movement, and did not look
    anything at all to me like a propulsion streak.

5.  Another thing left out of the discussion here before was that another object
    streaked parallel to the other streaking object, although this one was fainter
    and towards the lower right of the screen.

My first impression of the clip was debris.  After playing it over and over again
on my VCR I still think it's debris.  I saw no evidence of camera movement.  I don't
see how enhancing the picture helps because the light is so low and the picture is
so grainy.  What happens when you enhance a fuzzy picture of a faraway star?

Finally, I find it hard to believe that anyone would think this is ETI, or *any*
kind of vehicle.

---
sincerely,
Alan Jones  /  Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX  /  email=[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Send a Message To GOD
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 17:44:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 64


                  STAND UP AND BE COUNTED

            Declare Spiritual Independence

                 July 4, 1992

               GLOBAL INDEPENDENCE '92

             Urgent Global Activation Day

This is a day of celebration of our independence from all of the constraints
that bind us in any way and do not allow us to be the glorious beings we are
meant to be.  We are recommending old-fashion picnics in the park, family
reunions and general community gatherings.  This is a day of fun and joyful
events for all.

Inquiries are invited and packets are available to help you plan your day.

A wave of light from torches (flashlights) and other forms of light shining
skyward will proclaim our unity and oneness before and with each other, our
elder family who has gone before us, and our Creator.  The lights will be lit
at 9 p.m. your local time sequentially around the globe.  Spirit has initiated
this activity as a way of activating light workers on the planet into a plan-
ned activity that can be networked around the globe in a short period of time.

This global celebration is for everyone of any belief system who believes in
life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all planetary citizens. It does
not matter which of the great spiritual teachers a person or group follows.  We
are all planetary citizens.

This is an activity to help us reach out, reach up, come out of the closet and
remember our heritage and accept our destiny a global and universal citizens
under God, by whatever name the Creator is known.  We acknowledge that we belong
to a greater life stream than is visible to our normal vision.  We are part of
the family of man and the family of God.

The time is past when any of earth's citizenry can act alone without serious
consequences being shared by the totality of the Creation.  We acknowledge
that these is a guiding force behind the events that are manifesting on the
planet, and they are a part of what the prophets of old called, "the end times."

We believe at the end of "the end" times there can be peace on earth as man
resumes his rightfule place in the cosmic scheme and that can happen now.  We
acknowledge that there is assistance available to us from these higher beings.
They will avail themselves to us to assist us in healing our planet.  They are
not our rescuers or saviors, but merely or elder brothers and sisters.

We invite all of the family of man to accept the magnificent gift that was
originally given to the United States of America, the Declaration of Independ-
ence, for safekeeping until the time was right.  THE TIME IS NOW!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wish further information, please contact:

                Arasia, Ambassador-at-Large
            Antahkarana, The Star People Connection
              501 No. 36th #140, Seattle, WA 98103
                      Telephone [phone]




----- End Included Message -----
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From: [e-mail] (!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 17:24:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6686 sci.skeptic:26501
Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>This seems like a good discussion. May I please put me two cents worth
>in this conversation.  Before I was 22 years old ( and I'm 60 now) I didn't
>give UFO's a serious thought, then on the sides of an Atlas missile at
>Vandenbery AFB in Caif. I got the idea that there was something I had to
>find or do.  I went to Alaska and didn't find it and then came back to
>the San Francisco Bay Area and met a person that became my teacher. He
>taught we many things about UFOs, ESP and other things. To answer one
>of your questions as to why UFOs are important to us I believe you'll
>find as thousand of people are now finding out that all of us existed
>before on other planets and dimensions and it is wake up time.
>That's all folks. John Winston.


Wake up time! were we sleeping before...!

And do what after we are awakened??
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From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 17:47:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 48

[e-mail] (John) writes:

>One of the Blackbird pilots is from here, a brother
>of one of our staff members.  From what I've heard,
>there was little thrill in flying one of them but
>a great thrill to say you _have_ flown one.  It
>appears that all attention is to the instruments
>(why'd they even put a window on this thing?) and
>that at speed the plane's altitute could vacillate
>as much as 3,000 feet.  (His name is Sam Gudmonson.)

>more trivia, humm.

This is backed up by most every serious reference work on the
aircraft.  A number of interesting effects have been reported that
are related to this phenomenon.  One that hasn't gotten a great deal
of publicity - it appears that at the rated Mach 3.2, the fuselage
forebody would "flex" as the altitude would change.  The shock waves
coming back off the front of the plane would then vary across the
inlet of the engine nacelle - and that variation would cause
engine disturbances, sometimes including the hated "unstart".

An unstart was, in a nutshell, an occurrence that unbalanced the
engine thrust and caused the plane to yaw to one side or the other
and back and forth and back and forth.....rather violently.
It has been reported that helmets got *cracked* by being smacked against
the inside of the cockpit.  Most of those unstarts became a
thing of the past as the flight control system was improved.

For a more precise explanation of an unstart, read one of the books.
Crickmore's book is a good place to start.

Altitude variations were fairly routine, but interesting nonetheless.

The pilot workload in the SR71 was pretty high, but I am told better
than the original A12 Blackbird, which had a less capable
Flight Control System by most accounts.  Keep in mind that the A12
was also a *single-seat* aircraft!  The SR71 carried both pilot and
RSO, meaning that the pilot could FLY the plane and let the RSO
worry about the spook stuff.....

To a certain extent, it would appear that one of the only MORE
prestigous flying assignments within USAF than doing a tour with the
Thunderbirds was to fly the Blackbird. (noting assignments like
Air Force One or something like that....)  I wonder how many ex-Thunderbirds
might have moved up to flying the Blackbird....  :-)

Duane
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim
From: [e-mail] (frost...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 20:15:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Lines: 28
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John) writes...
>One of the Blackbird pilots is from here, a brother
>of one of our staff members.  From what I've heard,
>there was little thrill in flying one of them but
>a great thrill to say you _have_ flown one.  It
>appears that all attention is to the instruments
>(why'd they even put a window on this thing?) and
>that at speed the plane's altitute could vacillate
>as much as 3,000 feet.  (His name is Sam Gudmonson.)
>
>more trivia, humm.
>
  There was an article a few years back in Popular Science or some such
  magazine in which the writer, who was invited along as an observer on
  a western states test flight, states that the pilot told him that one
  problem which could cause quite a *thrill* was when one of the planes
  two engines would alter or lose thrust when an air-intake adjustment
  cone would be out of proper alignment. The cones in the engines can
  actually move in and out several feet to affect the speed of the air
  entering the engines. This would cause the plane to immediately go into
  a sideways 'slide' through the air and cause much sweating by the crew
  as they brought it back under control again.

======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    [e-mail]
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager
======================================================================
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 20:41:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

Through my E-mail I got a request for a copy of a video I made of an
interview I had with Harley Bryd the grand nephew of Admiral Byrd the
explorer.  Harley Byrd had been on the government team that investigated
the Roswell UFO crash.  I sent the information to Mark Rodeghier, scientific
director of the Center for UFO Studies and coordinator of research in the
Roswell Event.  After listening to the interview with Harley Byrd I noticed
again the he mentioned that he was to have a meeting the vice president
of the United States last year.  I wonder how that came out?
That's all folks.  John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!taligent!apple!selway.umt.edu!cs000rdw
From: [e-mail] (Richard D Warner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: 10 Gigawatt laser
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 20:35:42 GMT
Organization: University of Montana
Lines: 9


    Keep my comment about "no known Gigawatt lasers" in perspective -
we were talking about military weapons to explain the blip on the
shuttle film, not fusion research.  As I mentioned, these don't seem so
viable for shooting through our dense atmosphere.  In space, a chemically
pumped high power laser would be fine, but even so probably wouldn't be in
the visible spectrum (but certainly feelable:->).

Rich
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 21:57:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 8

I've been getting E-mail and it's running very positive. People are
asking questions and some of them don't want their names mentioned
so that will be my rules in answering them. J. asks where do I live.
I live in Milpitas, Calif. J. also asked what I thought of the people
I interviewed who claimed they were abducted by the space people? As
far as I'm concerned I think they were telling the truth and thousands
more are having the same experience.
That's all folk. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.bizarre,alt.sex.bondage,alt.sex.beasiality,alt.alien.visitors,alt.personals,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.satanism,alt.religion.scientology,alt.beer
Subject: alt.sex.bondage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 00:43:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:63033 alt.sex.bondage:28505 alt.alien.visitors:6692 alt.personals:32669 alt.rush-limbaugh:4007 alt.satanism:1345 alt.religion.scientology:2314 alt.beer:3480


   I just had to tell you all that alt.sex.bondage really works. Before I
hooked up to Internet, I had all these chains and ropes laying around the
house (not to mention the whips, leather masks, felt-lined handcuffs).Then
I started posting to the Net and some guy threatened to tie me to a post,
duct tape my mouth shut, and sodomize me repeatedly. I thought it sounded
like good time so we went out. If I wasn't bound and gagged I could have
told Bob - I mean Master- that I really liked him. Our next date was
complete with dinner, hog-tying, and floggings. I was in love, and after
my bones knit, we're getting married. It'll be just me, Master, and his
irish terrier.

Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Lar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 10:28:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 11

[e-mail](Robert Sheaffer) 27 June 92 17:25:47 GMT types-

>>Better late than never.Not quite two hours ago James Oberg(skeptic)
>>and [Don] Ecker of "UFO Magazine" were the guests of "Larry King Live"

Who is Larry Eckert?.

And Larry isn't always.
As I was rudely reminded by the U2 album.

This makes 3 name connectors.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 02:53:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 83


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
says:
>
>I started in computers in 1977, when my mom showed me an advertisment in the
>L.A. Times about a computer fair at USC...She knew about my interest in
>computers from my spending all my spare time at computer stores (what few
>there were at that time), and buying up everything I could lay my hands on
>about the subject...I had searched for many years for something which would
>utilize the fine mind I was gifted with...

What ever happened to it...cause it ain't still there.

>
>Around this time, I discovered that there were several other computer sites at
>USC which I could access...One was the Salvatori Computer Center, a few blocks
>down the street from the Keck Center...This system was much more advanced than
>the Keck's, being a Tops-10 system...If you think I am a kind of scoundrel for
>what I did, think of this...The first day I walked into the Salvatori Center,
>there were maybe 5 little kids sitting there playing games on their system,
>using passwords stolen from students going there...One of them offered me a
>password, and I was on my way...
>

I'm real sure they told you outright that they had stolen passwords.

>
>It wasn't long before I had discovered how to access the Pentagon's computers,
>and figured out how to decifer the protected files that were on there...It was
>SO damn easy, it was really unbelievable...It was at this time that I began to
>have problems with one of the people at the site...The office which I had been
>using had some top-secret data sitting on the shelves, which I used to go
>through, but always returned it exactly as I found it...Somehow, the guy whose
>office it was got wind that his stuff had been tampered with, and I was forced
>to move to another office...Darn!
>

Tampering with Top Secret documents....hmm?
So where's your new office.... Ft. Leavenworth, KS ?  That's where most
federal prisoners end up.

>
>I found the number on the wall next to the first Plato terminal I ever saw...I
>had been told by one of the regular kids at the Salvatori Center that if I
>wanted to see some REAL games, I should go over to a certain building near
>USC, and get a signon on the Plato computer system...When I walked into the
>room containing three Plato terminals hooked up to CERL (Computer Education
>Research Lab) at the University of Illinois in Urbana, Illinois, there was a
>large piece of paper on the wall which said USC-TIP and the number
>underneath...I simply couldn't believe it...Top-Secret phones numbers sitting
>around for all to see!!!  I asked the head guy there and was given a signon to
>CERL...
>

I'm sure they just handed you a signon with all those 'top-secret' phone
numbers lying around.

>
>Then, something happened which scared the H**L out of me...Larry Fye was
>showing off his skills to me one night at ISI, when he suddenly asked me if I
>would like to see him knock one of the other sites off the face of the
>earth...I told him I would have to see it to believe it, so he opened the
>bottom drawer of the operators desk there, and took out a book which had some
>interesting writing on it...It said that it was a Federal Offense to OPEN the
>book, and the penalty was a 20-year prison term or $50,000, whichever came
>first!  He flipped the huge book open to some page, then copied down some
>numbers that were on the page...Then he signed on to SRI (Stanford Research
>Institute), did a couple of things, typed in the numbers, hit the return key,
>and said, "THEY'RE GONE!!!"...I looked on in amazement as the message "SRI is
>not ready..." came over the screen...This meant that SRI was GONE...It had
>been knocked off the air...I didn't believe it was possible, so I tried
>logging on through Telnet...Sure enough, the system had gone down...Larry told
>me that this could be done to ANY computer if you knew the right codes...I
>thought of what could happen to the real important computers on the Arpanet if
>that got out somehow...I was truly scared...
>

And no one figured out who entered the commands, huh?  Gary, Gary, Gary
please make this believable.

[rest of garbage deleted]

Sorry folks, I just couldn't hack (pun intended) any more of this.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Send a Message To GOD
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 03:10:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says:
>
>This is a day of celebration of our independence from all of the constraints
>that bind us in any way and do not allow us to be the glorious beings we are
>meant to be.  We are recommending old-fashion picnics in the park, family
>reunions and general community gatherings.  This is a day of fun and joyful
>events for all.

I'm operating a float in the local parade.  Does that count as fun and joyful?

>
>Inquiries are invited and packets are available to help you plan your day.
>
>A wave of light from torches (flashlights) and other forms of light shining
>skyward will proclaim our unity and oneness before and with each other, our
>elder family who has gone before us, and our Creator.  The lights will be lit
>at 9 p.m. your local time sequentially around the globe....
>are all planetary citizens.

I'm lighting off some home made fireworks.  Will a Saturn V model rocket
loaded with a 1/2 pound of ground magnesium make enough light for this?
If not, I could add more.  The rocket has quite a bit of lift.

>
>We invite all of the family of man to accept the magnificent gift that was
>originally given to the United States of America, the Declaration of Independ-
>ence, for safekeeping until the time was right.  THE TIME IS NOW!

Oops!  I goofed.  I've been using the Declaration of Independence all along.
Why didn't someone tell me I was supposed to WAIT to use it!  Good Grief!
Now I've screwed up everything for everybody.  Sorry folks!  :-)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!chsun!impch!ixgch!chris
From: [e-mail] (Christoph Eckert)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Jun 92 20:11:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Chris Eckert, XGP Switzerland)
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: XGP Switzerland
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6696 sci.skeptic:26548 alt.paranormal:5345

From article <[e-mail]>,
by [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer):

> I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
> avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
> UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
> something "out there" to be proven?

so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial
intelligence?

---
Chris Eckert, XGP Switzerland
Internet Mail: [e-mail], SRI-NIC: CE13
Phone: [phone] (voice/MET), [phone] (ixgch)
@ Ixgate Switzerland (ixgch.imp.com) / XGP Switzerland
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ub4b!info-sparc1.info.ucl.ac.be!NewsWatcher
From: [e-mail] (Christophe Meessen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live"
Message-ID: <Meessen-300692103254@130.104.58.8>
Date: 30 Jun 92 09:11:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain (Belgium)
Lines: 72
Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.104.58.8

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert
Sheaffer) wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
> >
> >Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic)
> >and [Don] Ecker of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live"
> >(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged
> >"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If
>
>
> OK, now I have seen the show, and the "famous" NASA UFO video. Gee,
> I was absolutely UNDERWHELMED by the "UFO"! It is so obviously a tiny
> piece of debris floating alongside the orbiter. Then there is a flash,
> representing either a water dump or the brief firing of an attitude-
> control thruster (both frequent). The piece of debris is pushed outward
> from the craft by the force of this. A few seconds later, a second piece
> is also pushed outward. (That's the "secret weapon sent up to intercept
> it!".) Anyone who thinks that these little pieces of debris are "alien
> spacecraft" is ready to enlist in the funny farm.


"Obviously" ? What is that for an argument ? How deep was your
investigation ?
On what informations do you base your assertions ? Can you prove these
assertions ? Is "enlist in the funny farm" a scientific argument ?

Can you prove that the object seen was a piece of debris ? Where did you
get this idear that the flash was a water dump or the brief firing of an
attitude-
control thruster (both frequent) ? Is the frequence enough to prove that
the flash is due to one of your assertions ?

Irony has never be a scientifical and productive argument.
Why can't we study the phenomenon with a more objectif point of view.
Gather facts as much as possible. This video images are facts. Where there
other informations that could be used to correlate the images ? It's size
....

Every thing else is just noise, no solid and usfull information.

> Ecker came on strong against Oberg in prosecutorial form, asking him
> questions that imply his role in a "government cover-up." Larry King
> had to restrain Ecker several times.

This attitude will NEVER lead to a collaboration with the "government". You
can be shure that the "government" will avoid people with unwise behaviour.
Even if they wished to share informations and a scientifical study of the
phenomenon, they can't thrust people with such behaviour.

> Please, UFOlogists, help out the "debunkers". Jump on the
> bandwagon of this "NASA UFO Video," and proclaim it's "genuine evidence"
> of aliens! Then everyone will be able to see how credulous you
> really are! :)
>
>
> --
>
>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>

Please, everyone, help out to solve this scientifical problem. Please keep
to solid evidence and solid deductions. Keep the wiseness to accept
whatever conclusions comes out of these evidences.

Please, everyone, avoid irony in one way or the other. This is just noise
and shows that you don't have the maturity or the wiseness to enter upon
this subject. Take some backward movement first.

Bien cordialement,

                           Christophe MEESSEN
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 00:05:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 40


 > If I understand correctly, the reason for the closed and secretive
 > nature
 > of the conference at MIT was because of the generally hostile
 > environment
 > for people who claim abductions. That hostility includes, of course,
 > ridicule, announcements that it couldn't possibly have happened, et al.
 > Perhaps the way to insure that research doesn't become fragmented and
 > non-legitimate is to work on the present climate surrounding people
 > who go public about their experiences.
 >
 > I think we see the same syndrome on this net. I have spoken privately
 > with a number of people by e-mail who would not post their experiences
 > on the net because of the rude and intolerant debunkers and nay-sayers.
 >
 > The bottom line, IMHO,is that vigorous debunking actually destroys data.
 > IN the sense that it prevents those who have it from making it
 > available.

Your points are well taken Louise, but I still insist that the research must
be conducted in full view of the abduction research community and their peers.
While I agree that confidentiality of the witnesses must be a priority, the
direction and strategy for attacking the problem does not.  As I have stated
before, Hopkins has been conducting research into this problem for several
years and nothing substantive has emerged.  We keep getting the same story,
and now it is being embellished with *their* own idea of what is going on.
All the while, there is no proof that even the experience perceived by the
percipient is the *real* thing and not a screen memory.  Since there is no
watchdog or peer review of what takes place behind the closed doors, anything
can go.  The final outcome could be a major embarrassment to the UFO research
community, particularly if it is found that a "cult" has formed around the
research.  There are scientific guidelines and protocols which must be
followed.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Seeking Victims Of Alien Abduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 00:09:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 30


 > [I am posting this for a friend.  Please do not reply to me, but
 > to her at the phone number given below.  Thanks.]
 >
 > ----------------------
 >
 > ABDUCTED?
 >         Did you have a frightening experience?
 >         Does not being believed make it worse?
 > I want to help.
 >
 > I am researching the social and psychological aftermath of UFO
 > abduction.  I will hear your story with respect and kindness and
 > a sympathetic ear.  You will have absolute confidentiality.
 > Help me to translate your experience into words that help both you
 > and others to better understand what you are going through.
 >
 > Please call me now.
 >
 > Lisa Gladstone, 408-288-7554.

Hmmm...What are Ms. Gladstone's qualifications for doing this?  What will she
ultimately do with the data when she gets it?

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 14:14:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 18

[e-mail] (frost...) writes:

[stuff deleted with reference to the 'unstart']

>  entering the engines. This would cause the plane to immediately go into
>  a sideways 'slide' through the air and cause much sweating by the crew
>  as they brought it back under control again.

    Yes, of that I have NO doubt.  If you get too out of whack at
Mach 3.2, the airplane can *disintegrate* from around you.  Based on
pilot reference, an ejection from 80,000+ feet is quite a dangerous and
exciting experience......

    Of course, that is what the S1010B pressure suits that Blackbird
crews wore/wear is all about - surviving a Mach 3+ ejection and living
to tell about it.  And they worked.....

Duane
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From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.sex.bondage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 14:20:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 13


[stupid idiotic post deleted]

To paraphrase Andy Rooney, did ya' ever wonder why it is that when you
try to do a finger on somebody who posts this kind of garbage, it rarely
ever works?

Hmmm....I always figured if aliens were smart enought to *get* here,
they'd at least know which newsgroups to post to....

This guy must have been hatched on Mercury - fried brains....

Duane
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 14:47:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 42

>[e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|>[e-mail] (Peter Caffell) writes:
|>
|> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990.
|>
|> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to
|> 1981.
|>
|> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the
|> SR-71 taking off.
|>
|> Peter.
|> ___
|> X MegaMail 2.1b #0:


>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?
>It must have been before 1990.  Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World
>Records book that states that the blackbird set a speed record back
>then.

>Brick

The SR-71 (actually a YF-12) was shown to the public on September 30,
1964.  The first 12 SR-71's were ordered on January 30, 1960.  As
others have mentioned, there were several "models":

    A-12 (first test test model)
    SR-71 (origin designation "RS-71", but LBJ messed up in
        announcing it, and the AF stuck with it - sounds
        better anyway.)
    YF-12 (fighter interceptor, with radars, extra ventral fins
        for stability, and air-to-air missles -- cannons are
        not very useful at Mach 3!)
    D-21 (drone version(!))

.... Kelly Johnson's (also designed P-38, F-104, U2) original idea was
the fighter version.  There was at least one trainer version with a
second 'bubble' behind the regular cockpit -- I've seen film of Kelly
himself getting to fly in an SR this way.

Charles
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From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 17:48:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 91

[e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) writes:

>The SR-71 (actually a YF-12) was shown to the public on September 30,
>1964.  The first 12 SR-71's were ordered on January 30, 1960.  As

    To be most specifically correct, on Jan. 30, 1960, Lockheed
was authorized to produce 12 A-12 Blackbirds for the CIA.  The SR71
came along just a bit later.

>others have mentioned, there were several "models":

>    A-12 (first test test model)
    Not only was the A12 the *first* Blackbird, but they DID serve
    as an operational aircraft for the CIA....
    There was also a two-seat trainer A12 nicknamed the
    "Titanium Goose".
    There were also two M-12's - see the section on the D21 below.

>    SR-71 (origin designation "RS-71", but LBJ messed up in
>        announcing it, and the AF stuck with it - sounds
>        better anyway.)
    The usual designation is SR71A for the operational version
    with a pilot and RSO.  There were two SR71B dual trainer
    versions built, one crashed and one survived.
    After the crash, a second trainer was desired, so a single
    SR71C was built, the back half from a crashed YF12 and
    the front half from an engineering test specimen.  It flew
    rather oddly and was not well liked.  Nicknamed "The Bastard"
    it was never used much.

>    YF-12 (fighter interceptor, with radars, extra ventral fins
>        for stability, and air-to-air missles -- cannons are
>        not very useful at Mach 3!)
    Essentially correct.  Of further possible interest here
    was the fire control radar, the Hughes AN/ASG-18.  With
    some variations, it essentially ended up in the F15 Eagle,
    such was the excellence of the system.  The XAIM-47 Falcon
    missile is seen today in the very similar AIM-54 Phoenix,
    used with great relish and success on the F14 Tomcat.

>    D-21 (drone version(!))
    The GTD21 was originally designed to launch from the back
    of two of the CIA's A12 aircraft.  Two were modified to what
    is often referred to as the M12 configuration.  In an M12,
    the recon. bay behind the pilot was reconfigured to house
    a second crew member as an LCO, or Launch Control Officer.
    The GTD21 itself rode on a pylon on the back of the M12.
    The engine of the GTD21 was a Marquardt RJ43MA11 (hope I
    got that right, I'm regurgitating from memory here) ramjet
    that needed to be accelerated to about Mach 2 before it
    could *start*.
    The GTD21B version was launched from a modifed B52 underwing
    pylon using a booster rocket to bring the drone up to
    ramjet speeds.  It is thought that virtually ALL operational
    missions of the GTD21 were flown from this configuration,
    owing to an accident during an M12 separation test that not
    only caused the loss of an M12 but the life of the LCO.

    GTD21's are reputed to have been used over Afghanistan, and
    there are rumours of overflights of both the USSR and
    Communist China.

    What little is currently known of the GTD21 is that it was
    rated speeds of Mach 4+ at altitudes of at or exceeding
    100,000 feet.  It is still difficult to get information
    on this little unmanned Blackbird......

>... Kelly Johnson's (also designed P-38, F-104, U2) original idea was
>the fighter version.  There was at least one trainer version with a
>second 'bubble' behind the regular cockpit -- I've seen film of Kelly
>himself getting to fly in an SR this way.

    Kelly did in fact get to go up in his brilliant creation.
    This seems eminently fair.  While some of this is rather
    out of the general overview of alt.aliens.visitors, if
    anyone ever wants to vote for a man as the greatest US
    aircraft designer since Wilbur and Orville Wright, Kelly
    Johnson is probably the best choice.  To name a few of his
    creations, the F80 Shooting Star, our first truly operational
    jet fighter; the F104 Starfighter, the U2 and all the
    Blackbirds.  His protege' at the Skunk Works, Ben Rich,
    (who it must be said is a brilliant guy in his own right)
    is responsible for the F117A Nighthawk.  Kelly was the
    designer for lots of other Lockheed aircraft as well,
    most notable is probably the P38 Lightning.  Note that the
    operating moniker for the new YF22 is or at least WAS,
    the Lightning II.  Some idiot in the DOD wants to call it
    the "Superstar" - damn dumbest name I ever heard of......
    1/2 :-)

Duane
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 02:33:36 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 185
Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1841 sci.physics:23134 alt.alien.visitors:6704
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

One of the more interesting lines of scientific speculation concerns
the possibility of getting matter to interpenetrate. Not just at the
quantum level, but using bulk matter.

The applications for such a capability would be endless. We might be
able to operate at high speeds through dense media without being
concerned about things like friction or collision.  No ordinary
enclosure would be immune to penetration. We would build underground
cities and pass between them and outer space without having to have
access ports or connecting tubes.

As it happens we have found one way to get matter to interpenetrate. It
is called superconductivity.

Elementary particles, the basic constituents of matter, have a property
called spin, which is quantized, so that it can only take half-integral
values -- 1/2, 1, 3/2, 2, 5/2 ....  Particles having fractional spins
are called fermions. They include electrons and protons, the most
common constituents of ordinary matter. Particles with integral spins
are called bosons. The photon, or particle of electromagnetic
radiation, is a boson.

Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get
so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or their
charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why the
electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms keep
their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't
easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as
closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical
charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting
each other in any way.

Fermions can also get close to bosons. It is fermions which give
ordinary matter its complex structures, such as molecules and men, and
which cause it to consist of mostly empty space instead of packing
together.  This property of fermions is the basis for our perception of
material objects as "solid" and inpenetrable.

The current favored theory of superconductivity posits that pairs of
electrons become bound together, their spins aligned in the same
direction, while keeping a certain distance between them, and travel
together along parallel paths through the superconducting medium.
These pairs, called Cooper pairs after the physicist who proposed the
theory, together have a combined integral spin and function as a boson.
As a boson, they do not interact with the atoms in the superconducting
medium, other than to be confined within that medium, but pass right
through the spaces between them without being deflected or slowed down.
This can continue as long as the temperature of the medium remains
below the critical value, above which the atoms have enough energy to
break up the Cooper pairs.

In theory, it is possible for arbitrarily large collections of fermions
to act as a single boson if they are bound together in spin alignment
and there are an even number of them. A golf ball, a space ship, even
an entire planet could be a boson, interpenetrating ordinary matter
at will. In practice, it is difficult to see how such a collection
could be achieved or maintained. Getting pairs of electrons to do so at
the temperature of liquid Nitrogen is one thing. One can imagine
binding the particles of a large object together by surrounding them in
an extremely strong electromagnetic field which would align all their
spins, but such a field is likely not to be compatible with life
processes or with the structural integrity of the object. If they could
be bound, then a bosonic state could be maintained by simply adding one
electron as required to make the total number of fermions even.

The problem would be to prevent single fermions in the collection from
leaving this bound state at random, at a rate that would make it
impossible to detect and respond to the need to add a fermion, such as
an electron, to keep the number even, or to prevent odd fermions
entering the collection randomly from outside. Any field which
contained the collection would itself have to have a distinct boundary
in order to control a precise number of particles, and perhaps align
any fermions that enter its range.

If the field were electromagnetic, it would have to consist of an
extremely complex sum of oscillating fields which reinforced in a
confined volume of space and canceled out everywhere else. Elementary
particles themselves can be described as such fields.  However, it is
not obvious how we could do that for a region of space with a more
convenient size or shape. Even if the field could control the entry and
exit of low-energy particles, there would still be the problem of
perturbation by high-energy particles, such as cosmic rays and natural
background radiation.

One suspects that it might not be possible to maintain a bosonic state
100 percent of the time, but perhaps only 95 percent of the time, in
which case there would remain a significant residue of interaction
which might cause some damage to living tissue and to the integrity of
structures. If so, it might not be a state in which travelers would
want to remain for long periods of time. Bosonic travel would then be
something akin to space travel, involving exposure to a low but
cumulative level of damage which would cause health problems, increase
equipment maintenance costs, and perhaps carry a risk of occasional
catastrophic failure.

Assuming that bosonic transport could be done, then, it seems likely by
this analysis that it might not be a favored mode of transport for most
people in the normal course of their lives, but might be confined to
expendable robots and to experimental specimens who would not be
subjected to it very often or for long periods of time.

While in a bosonic state, a vehicle would be nearly invisible from the
outside, except perhaps for effects of its passage on matter in the
vicinity, which might take the form of a glowing aura or various kinds
of disturbances.

---

The physicist Enrico Fermi once looked up at the sky and asked "Where
are They?" What he meant is that since starfaring seems possible, even
though at less than the speed of light it might take many generations
for a starship to get from one star to the next, and if there are other
civilizations in the galaxy with the technical capability for space
flight, then it should be possible for a single such race, pausing at
each planetary system to develop and build more starships, to expand
through the galaxy at an average rate of .1 lightspeed, which would
enable them to visit every star in the galaxy within about 1 million
years, a very short timespan in the life of a galaxy.

Assuming we are not the first such civilization in this galaxy, then
why hasn't Earth been visited before? Based on reasonable estimates of
how many suitable planets there are likely to be in the galaxy, we
should expect to be visited about every couple of years by members of a
new species.

The answer may be that starfaring beings live in starships, and that
when they station such starships on a planet, they site them
underground. If each such starship-city had a million such beings, then
we could have a million such cities, each representing a different
species, buried beneath our feet, housing trillions of aliens, and
never know it. Some of them may have been here for longer than there
has been life on earth.

On theoretical grounds, it is not surprising that an advanced
civilization might be living in subterranean cities, or even that such
a civilization might have been doing so for longer than humans have
been living on the surface. We think of living in scattered settlements
on the surface as normal, but that arises out of our background as
first, hunter-gatherers, and then as herder-farmers, depending on
other life forms to gather energy in the form of sunshine for us to
harvest. That kind of economy requires a dispersed habitation pattern.

Unfortunately, once a species gets beyond the hunter-gatherer stage, it
becomes destructive of the natural ecosystem. It then has only a
limited amount of time to evolve to the next stage, in which it totally
separates its life-support system from the natural ecosystem. This
necessarily involves withdrawing into cities designed and operated like
giant starships, which are sealed from their external environment and
which recycle all materials, using only a little energy to maintain
normal function.  We can imagine starship-cities that could last for
millions of years, using only available sources of energy, such as
solar or geothermal. A plausible size for such a starship-city might be
1 or 2 kilometers in diameter. Such a city could house perhaps a
million beings similar to human beings at a high level of comfort.

It can be shown that there is no viable compromise between scattered
and compact living. Anything less than sealed cities can last for, at
best, a few thousand years before collapse. Even with nanotechnology,
there would appear to be a minimum size for such habitats, the size of
a city, and therefore only one basic way for members of a civilization
to live if it is to last very long.

Starship-cities could be built in space, inside asteroids, or on the
surface of a planet, but there they would be subject to hazards like
radiation, corrosion and weathering. They would last longer and be less
expensive to maintain if built underground. A few thousand years after
making the transition to living that way, the members of such a
civilization might come to find life on the surface of planets
disagreeable and abnormal, in much the same way that many people used
to living in luxury hotels find camping disagreeable.

Human civilization now has only a few decades to make the transition to
living in such starship-cities. If it does not, it will collapse, and
humanity will descend to the stone age, with only a few scattered bands
of nomads living in a desolated wilderness.  If at least a few humans
do make this transition, then their descendants can have a bright
future, and civilization could continue for millions or even billions
of years.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
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From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: same poll
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 02:35:40 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Followup-To: Same poll
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 53

Ok Alt.alien.visitors,


If you could just send me a mail message that states in your subject line just
the statement( for example):  poll: 4

That way, I see your response from your subject line without having to actually
read your mail.    Know what I mean?

example 2:
 U  2 [e-mail] Tue Jun 16 22:13   30/1147  Re: Two mysteries
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                     just replace with===> Poll: 5

 U  3 [e-mail]   Tue Jun 16 23:39   28/1055  Re: bluemoon (was Re: VCR
 U  4 [e-mail] Wed Jun 17 09:41   35/1535  Silly Internet Adressing

=====================================
= Choose ONE  of the below options. =
=====================================

0) Believe even though uninformed.

1) Believe UFO's exist, and are vistiting and abducting.

2) Believe UFO's exist, and are visiting.

3) Believe Aliens exist but they aren't visiting.

4) Have slight opinion favoring belief in aliens visiting and abducting.

5) Have slight opinion favoring belief in aliens visiting, but not abducting.

6) Have slight opinion favoring belief in aliens, but not visiting.

7) Haven't heard/seen enough info to form an opinion.

8) Tend to not believe in UFO's, even though uninformed.

9) Don't believe in UFO's, and am informed.

10) I dont believe UFO's don't exist here or elsewhere.

11)  I HAVE heard/seen enough to form an opinion, and it is that there
     is not enough indisputable proof that aliens are visiting Earth, yet
     according to cosmological theory, they SHOULD exist in the universe.

12) Non of the options fit me.


I thank those who have already replied.

Brick
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 13:21:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Yes Rick.  I will agree that UFO does mean different things to
> different people.

No it doesn't, it means one thing, and one thing only - that is

    Unidentified

    Flying

    Object

this doesn't necessarily imply anything at all about the nature of the flying
object in question- it can quite easily refer to a bird which does not appear
to be of any known type as to an alien space-ship.

>  I think most people take it to mean something
> not of our known whole that is coming into our reality.

This doesn't really mean anything, though I gather you're trying to imply that
UFO's are not actually part of the physical universe (that is presumably what
you mean by 'our reality').  As with so many such claims, this claim of yours
is wholly without evidence and is purely your personal *belief*, so you should
not put it forward as if it were some kind of accepted interpretation.

Julian Porter
> John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Jun 92 13:23:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> A person by the name of Al C. loaned me copies of the magazine UfO
> Journal of Facts (spring and autumn 1991) and it mentioned the fact
> a lady from Venus called Omnec Onec lectured in Tucson, Arizona.
> She was at the First World UFO Congress on May 7, 1991.
> Source of information: The UFO Library, 11684,Ventura Blvd. Suite 708,
> Studio City Cal 91604.
> John Winston.

That must have been interesting - how did anybody used to living in an
atmosphere mostly consisting of sulphuric acid, and in temperatures far in
excess of any known on this planet manage to survive here, let alone make a
speech?
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Seeking Victims Of Alien Abduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 02:42:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 43

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
|>
|>  > [I am posting this for a friend.  Please do not reply to me, but
|>  > to her at the phone number given below.  Thanks.]
|>  >
|>  > ----------------------
|>  >
|>  > ABDUCTED?
|>  >         Did you have a frightening experience?
|>  >         Does not being believed make it worse?
|>  > I want to help.
|>  >
|>  > I am researching the social and psychological aftermath of UFO
|>  > abduction.  I will hear your story with respect and kindness and
|>  > a sympathetic ear.  You will have absolute confidentiality.
|>  > Help me to translate your experience into words that help both you
|>  > and others to better understand what you are going through.
|>  >
|>  > Please call me now.
|>  >
|>  > Lisa Gladstone, 408-288-7554.
|>
|> Hmmm...What are Ms. Gladstone's qualifications for doing this?  What will she
|> ultimately do with the data when she gets it?
|>


Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but my first guess would be that she wants the
information in order to write an "Abduction True Stories" kind of a book and
cash in on the "Intruders" generated interest.


|> Mike
[...]

Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!news
From: [e-mail] (Steve Robiner)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bosonic Matter properties ( was: bosonic Transport)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 03:47:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Steve Robiner)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
[ much hypothesizing about macro 'bosonic matter states'
>While in a bosonic state, a vehicle would be nearly invisible from the
>outside, except perhaps for effects of its passage on matter in the
>vicinity, which might take the form of a glowing aura or various kinds
>

Would matter in a bosonic state be affected by gravity?  If so, any
material acheiving such a state would instatly be sucked into the
center of the Earth.  Also, if matter in this state cannot interact
with other matter, how would one acheive any kind of propulsion?


=steve=
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 04:00:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Arasia: Thanks very much for sending me the information about
your group.  It seems that you have many of the same mentors that
have helped me over the years such as Sananda, Michael and Saint
Germain. I remember one time I was on the sides of Mt. Shasta with
a group of light workers that Sister Thedra had called together. It
was raining where we were and snowing a few hundred feet further up
the mountain.  Everone was a little late getting in place for the
session and Michael was talking through a lady. He was really chewing
out everybody for being so late.
That's all for now.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 04:16:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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I was just looking at the latest issue of the pulp magazine called The
National Examiner (July 4, l992) and it mentioned a person that I
interviewed about 2 months ago by the name of Mr. Harder, who is a
retired professor from Berkely University. Mr. Harder lectured at the
Whole Lifer Expo in San Francisco this summer about UFOs. He has done
a lot of hypnotic work with Betty of the Barney and Betty Hill UFO
incident.  It also mentioned Edith Fiore who believes as many as
4,000,000 people have had abduction experiences.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bosonic Matter properties ( was: bosonic Transport)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 04:26:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston.
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Robiner) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>[ much hypothesizing about macro 'bosonic matter states'
>>While in a bosonic state, a vehicle would be nearly invisible from the
>>outside, except perhaps for effects of its passage on matter in the
>>vicinity, which might take the form of a glowing aura or various kinds
>
>Would matter in a bosonic state be affected by gravity?  If so, any
>material acheiving such a state would instatly be sucked into the
>center of the Earth.  Also, if matter in this state cannot interact
>with other matter, how would one acheive any kind of propulsion?

More to the point, how would it taste?  Could it pick up pictures from
all newspaper comics or only from bosonic ones?  Would it convert my
ribosomes into ribosobosomes?  If you add milk, what would the boson
equivalents of "snap", "crackle", and "pop" be?

The possibilities for sex toys that can go through "normal" matter are
endless!
                            -- K.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!hotcity!kirkm
From: [e-mail] (Kirk Marcroft)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Request: Mars face repost!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 10:32:54 GMT
Organization: BBS
Lines: 8

Could some one please repost the gif of the Face on Mars?!





Thanks
Wookie
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 14:49:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:

.......

>
> The applications for such a capability would be endless. We might be
> able to operate at high speeds through dense media without being
> concerned about things like friction or collision.  No ordinary
> enclosure would be immune to penetration. We would build underground
> cities and pass between them and outer space without having to have
> access ports or connecting tubes.
>

Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed
act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through
the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a
small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it
become significant.

So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a
spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid
matter.

Fun idea, though...

Sam Silverstein
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live"
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 16:33:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>Give it a rest Robert. Because YOU pronounce judgement we are all supposed to
>bend over backwards for insertion eh? I saw the tape.  I watched a small object
>of unknown origin and unknown composition floating gently across the earth's
>orbital horizon.

It is well-known that spacecraft in orbit are surrounded by small particles
of debris (ice, insulation fragments, etc) that hover and drift around
them. (Remember John Glenn's "fireflies"?)



>  As it passed across the shuttle's field of view, it very
>suddenly did an approx. 180 degree turn, sped up rapidly and disappeared in the
>opposite direction. Immediately after it did the 180 and took off, something
>that looked like nothing I ever saw...perhaps a beam, perhaps a small missle,
>something.....just shot through the space the object had been.  It was very
>obvious that this all took place quite a distance away from the shuttle.
>

Yes, two pieces of debris pushed in the same direction by the firing
of an attitude-control thruster. Amazing!!!!!!

And how can you *possibly* say that this took place "quite a distance" away?
There is NO information in such a video telling us how far away they are.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 19:11:00 GMT
References: <10704705@[e-mail]> <422800031@peg> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
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In article <[e-mail]>,
 [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>[...]
> Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more
> solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947.
> I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
> avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
> UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
> something "out there" to be proven?

>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>[...]
From what I can tell there have been thousands of reported cases of
"unambiguous detection" and likely far more unreported cases.

For instance, we had a neighbor we had known for over 15 years, quite
normal, honest, and not given to concocting tall tales.  One clear
day she and her two sons spotted a UFO hovering several hundred feet
away, over a corner of the property.  As they watched, a smaller black
disk dropped out of the bottom, and proceeded away on a horizontal
course.  The lareared to be disk-shaped, quite solid, and highly polished
and mirror-like.  After the smaller object (also disk-shaped, but only
about 6 feet in diameter and black) left, the larger object tilted,
passed overhead and then angled upwards into the sky where they quickly
lost sight of it.  As it passed overhead, they all experienced a sudden
wave of vertigo.  About two weeks later, also during the middle of the
day, they were inside the house when they again all experienced a similar
vertigo.  The younger son exclaimed, "They're back again," and they all
ran out, where they saw an identical object in the sky in the same position
as before.  In a few moments, it banked and flew off.  It never returned to
the area as far as they could determine after that.  Both we and they
could only conclude that a UFO was unambiguously detected.  It wasn't
a fabrication; it wasn't swamp gas or the planet Venus, or a weather
balloon. (Just one example)

Jim Hawtree <[e-mail]>
******************
"If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck, it
may indeed become necessary to begin to seriously consider the possibility
that we are confronting an example of the species _Anas platyrhynchos_."
- Douglas Adams
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From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 20:36:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
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Christoph Eckert writes:
>From article <[e-mail]>,
>by [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer):
>
>[skeptical paragraph omitted]
>
>so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial
>intelligence?

Is the Pope Catholic?

--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!
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From: M Maxwell
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Speaking of invasions...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 21:25:25 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: irpsws80.ucsd.edu

Talking about being close to the invasion, has anyone else
out there seen the arcade game called "MAJESTIC TWELVE"?
It starts like out Space Invaders, but then moves along to
screens of you versus the horrible flying saucers which swoop
down and snatch up helpless cattle.  And yes, that phase is
called "CATTLE MUTILATION"!

Personally i think its a plant and plan to stay as far from the
game as possible ;-)

Matt Maxwell
[e-mail]

Hey you kids!  Don't touch that; it's ART!
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From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NASA Video & Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 22:03:54 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
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A sizable amount of debate---not all of it being conducted
with the air of cool-tempered dispassion one would like to
observe on such an occasion---has been sparked by the NASA
video and the explanatory hypotheses put forward by "skeptics"
and (for lack of a better term) "not-so-skeptics" alike;
the meatiest bone of contention seems to have sprung up over
Robert Sheaffer's (sorry, Robert, if I spelt your last name
incorrectly) statement/explanation that the video depicts
nothing more than a chunk of ice obeying Newton's Laws of
motion in response to a burst from an attitude-adjustment
rocket on the Shuttle, and his defense thereof from the
various counterarguments claiming that combinations of
camera/Shuttle motions could not account for the movements
seen in the tape.

It seems eminently more reasonable to invoke Occam's Razor
here and go with the simpler "ice particle" explanation than
invoke embattled alien spaceships dodging surface-to-air
weaponry as the cause for what is seen in the video, unless
careful analysis of the images contained therein demonstrates
some sort of motion that cannot possibly be reconciled with
Robert's "ice particle/booster rocket" scenario, or some other
data that positively mitigates against it---such as a concrete
determination of the anomalous object's distance from the
Shuttle as being on the order of kilometers, for instance---comes
to the fore.

Until such determinations can be made, I can see no point in
proponents and opponents of the "ice theory" verbally clawing
each other to shreds over the issue since a fairly convincing
explanation has been posited, and no solid (or even semi-solid)
refutation has come from the other "school of thought".

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
(On video tape OR off!)
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Brinkmann)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 03:25:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jon Brinkmann)
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
....stuff deleted...
|>
|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only
get
|> so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or
their
|> charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why
the
|> electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms
keep
|> their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't
|> easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as
|> closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical
|> charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting
|> each other in any way.

Whoa... You're way off here, at the crux of your theory!

1)    A neutral atom contains charged particles.  There are equal numbers
    of positive and negative particles.  An atom becomes charged when
    the numbers become unequal.

2)    Fermions (usually electrons) "orbit" the nucleus because
    they have charge.  Spin, and the fact that they are Fermions has
    nothing to do with it.  In fact, there is a finite probability
    of finding a Fermion (electron) inside the nucleus.  Look it up
    in your high school chemistry or modern physics text!

3)    The bonds that hold the atoms in molecules in place are due to
    primarily to the electrostatic charges present, NOT THE SPIN.
    Yes, the spin does play a role, but not the primary one.

4)    Atoms have a small but non-vanishing probability of passing
    through each other.  The low probability is due to the repulsion
    of one atom's electron cloud due to the other atom's electron
    cloud.

5)    A process known as "tunneling" occurs all the time.  In fact,
    it is used in the tunnel diode, a solid state device in common
    use.  In this case, charges pass through regions where classical
    electrostatics says it is impossible to do so, hence the "tunneling".
    However, if the situation is analyzed using Quantum Mechanics,
    the tunneling is predicted and explained.

Jon
---
Dr. Jon Brinkmann                Astrophysics Department
Internet:    [e-mail]        University of Virginia
UUCP:        ...!uunet!virginia!jvb7u    P.O. Box 3818
SPAN/HEPnet:    6654::jvb7u            Charlottesville, VA 22903-0818
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From: [e-mail] (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Skeptics' Predictions (was: Sylvia Brown Fraud)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 02:33:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>NONE of your predictions meet that criterion;  they are all for events yet
>to happen.  It's great they've been publicly posted ahead of time, but
>history has yet to prove them valid.  The "Solomon Ruling" you predicted
>for this coming October is the earliest, so we still have a few months to
>wait before being able to check ANY of your predictions..

Actually, I can confirm that prediction as almost certainly false now.

I can tell you now that it's not going to happen.  There are no pending
cases in the Supreme Court dealing with abortion with the name "Solomon."
The Supreme Court is about to recess, and will not meet again until the
first Monday in October.  Even should they hear a "Solomon" case immediately
then (and there are no cases currently pending at the appellate level with the
name "Solomon," making it almost certain that they won't),
it is close to certain that it would not be decided before
June 1993, much less throw together such an important decision within
weeks of hearing it.
--
                      ....................................
                      ted frank | [e-mail]
                      the university of chicago law school
                      suffering  from  bozeman's  syndrome
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 04:58:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 17
To: [e-mail]


    The second part of this request is for anyone knowing how I
    can get a hold of any documents that Washington has put out on
    this...ie. the ones from the freedom of information act.

.... CAUS put out a book that may be what you're looking for (or at
least a start):

AUTHOR:  Fawcett, Lawrence, and Barry J. Greenwood.
TITLE:   Clear intent : the government coverup of the UFO experience / Lawren>
PUBLISHER Englewood Cliffs, N.J. : Prentice-Hall, c1984.

   Fairly good (if occasionally strident) narrative.  I recommend it.
Contains a number of FOIA documents, plus descriptions of some of the
difficulties encountered in obtaining them.

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 13:32:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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To Julian Porter.
I believe that you will find that most people who believe  in UFOs
feel that if their are all those  stars out there and if those stars
have planets around them then maybe some of  them are coming around
our Earth  and we are seeing them in their craft.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 13:41:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

To  Julian Porter:
You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth
if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth
dimension we are mostly in the third.  She went through a process that
lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our
reality.  It's sort of like the catapillar that looked up at the beautiful
butterfly in the sky and  said, "You'll never get me  up in one of those
things.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 13:55:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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If all goes well I hope to spend the next 4 days on some property
I'm buying on the sides of Mt. Shasta.
A few very bad predictions and information is coming from
some of the space people.  Hatonn is saying we may have 120 hours of
darkness starting about July 25, l992 or sometime up to the end of July
1992.  I hope this doesn't happen. He also says Aids is a disease made
by man to control the overpopulation, that they first started in Africa.
He believes the people who started it want everybody  to have it so
we will be forced to take a vacine (of which the people who started the
disease have always had).  When we are given this vacine it will contain a
microchip that will allow us to be controlled. I hope this is not true.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 14:03:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Charles:
Would you be so kind as to put down the mailing address of CAUS.
Thanks,
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 14:15:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 7
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6727 sci.skeptic:26679

To vu02:
You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment.
You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good
type space people and they are being told by the space people that they
once lived on the same planet or  dimension that the space people are
coming from.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Aurora
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 10:34:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 16

[e-mail](Duane P Mahntick) types
>His protege at the Skunk works Ben Rich(who it must be said is a brilliant
>guy in his own right) is responsible for the F117A Nighthawk.      \\\\\\\\\\


Makes me wonder if he has had a hand in the much rumoured Aurora?.
Any idea about the real truth about the Aurora(including it's spelling
as Iv'e seen about 3 ways)?

Interestingly as I type this their has been an item on the EFA troubles.

******************************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY?
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL
******************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Oh, now come ON, gang.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 05:33:23 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 12


        About two weeks ago, I asked if anyone could Email me any material on
government coverups and UFOs, with perhaps some material on these 'Greys'
some people have mentioned. And I ain't heard SQUAT yet.

        Now, doesn't anyone have any substantial material on this?


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 16:33:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

>If all goes well I hope to spend the next 4 days on some property
>I'm buying on the sides of Mt. Shasta.
>A few very bad predictions and information is coming from
>some of the space people.  Hatonn is saying we may have 120 hours of
>darkness starting about July 25, l992 or sometime up to the end of July
>1992.  I hope this doesn't happen. He also says Aids is a disease made
>by man to control the overpopulation, that they first started in Africa.
>He believes the people who started it want everybody  to have it so
>we will be forced to take a vacine (of which the people who started the
>disease have always had).  When we are given this vacine it will contain
a
>microchip that will allow us to be controlled. I hope this is not true.


Gary Stollmans' cousin?

Rod
--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa3.lbl.gov!sichase
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 17:57:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

>[e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
>....stuff deleted...
>|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get
>|> so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or their
>|> charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why the
>|> electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms keep
>|> their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't
>|> easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as
>|> closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical
>|> charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting
>|> each other in any way.

In addition to the other criticisms already levied against this argument,
I would like to add that

(1) Degeneracy pressure plays no role is keeping a hydrogen atom from
collapsing.  The stability of the electron's orbit is not due to it's being
a fermion.  (At least in any direct sense).

(2) Photons most certainly do interact with one another, as has been oft
discussed in this newsgroup.  Photon-photon collisions are mediated by
higher-order QED processes.

(3) There is no limit to how close two fermions can get.  They must be
separated in phase space, not just position space.   But even neglecting
this, the effect which you describe (variously called "Pauli pressure",
"degeneracy pressure", "wave-function antisymmetrization","fermionic repulsion".
and a host of other names)  does not preclude fermions from being arbitrarily
close in phase space for short times, although it decreases the probability.

This is related to the "Bose-Einstein" or "Hanbury-Brown Twiss" effect, in
which the probability of finding two bosons (typically pions or photons) from
a single source close in phase space is increased, while for two identical
fermions, the probability is decreased, relative to what you would expect
in a classical process.  For example, in nuclear collisions, like-sign pairs
of pions are emitted with enhanced probability for small momentum difference,
which protons are emitted with decreased probability for small momentum
difference.  This does not mean that arbitrarily small momentum differences
are forbidden - rather they are suppreseed.

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase            "The question seems to be of such a character
[e-mail]        that if I should come to life after my death
                and some mathematician were to tell me that it
                had been definitely settled, I think I would
                immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 17:05:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>To  Julian Porter:
>You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth
>if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth
>dimension we are mostly in the third.  She went through a process that
>lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our
>John Winston.

Uh, sorry, "fourth dimension"? "vibrational frequency"?
You lost me. Classic psuedo-science mumbo-jumbo, I'm afraid.

-Tom R.   milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sdd.hp.com!usc!news.bbn.com!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 21:09:46 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Hello Anybody,

Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave
that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB)
held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on
the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB)
was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get
elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think
Bush said something like
"He(the alien) is not even wearing any clothes,how can he help with the
economy."These are  by no means direct quotes,so please no FLAMES.

At any rate I was just curious if any other news stations carried this
commment.
Other than to try & make Ross Perot look foolish,I can't think of a reason
he would even mention something like this ,can you? Will anyone admit to
seeing the issue or its contents?

Thanks,
Rod
--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!paperboy.osf.org!hsdndev!cfa203!job
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Oliver Breen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Send a Message To GOD
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 21:50:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Oliver Breen)
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA
Lines: 28


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>                  STAND UP AND BE COUNTED
>
>            Declare Spiritual Independence
>
>                 July 4, 1992
>
>               GLOBAL INDEPENDENCE '92
[...]
>
> A wave of light from torches (flashlights) and other forms of light shining
> skyward will proclaim our unity and oneness before and with each other, our
> elder family who has gone before us, and our Creator.  The lights will be lit
> at 9 p.m. your local time sequentially around the globe.  Spirit has initiated
> this activity as a way of activating light workers on the planet into a plan-
> ned activity that can be networked around the globe in a short period of time.

A wave of light from torches and other forms of light shining skyward is called
LIGHT POLLUTION, the bane of astronomers across the world (galaxy?).  Though,
with all those fireworks, maybe no one will notice :)

--
+-----------
| Jeffrey Oliver Breen   Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
| [phone]         60 Garden St., Room B-340, MS 6, Cambridge, MA  02138
|
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 22:24:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 28


maybe it all boils down to I think therefore I am.


















KKK



EXIT
q


Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!trlluna!titan!titan!lampard
From: [e-mail] (Greg Lampard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 23:10:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System PRIVILEGED Account)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
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Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1867 sci.physics:23314 alt.alien.visitors:6736

[e-mail] (Jon Brinkmann) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
>...stuff deleted...
>|>
>|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only
>get
>|> so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or
>their
>|> charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why
>the
>|> electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms
>keep
>|> their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't
>|> easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as
>|> closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical
>|> charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting
>|> each other in any way.

....stuff deleted...

>2)    Fermions (usually electrons) "orbit" the nucleus because
>    they have charge.  Spin, and the fact that they are Fermions has
>    nothing to do with it.

I think this is one of the few points where the original poster was actually
correct.
Only fermions obey the Pauli exclusion principle, bosons don't, so if electrons
were bosons they would all collapse into the lowest energy state, rather
than filling shells in the way they do.   Bosonic electrons would make
chemistry very boring :-).

---
Greg Lampard                    | Showing you how you can turn your old
Telecom Research Laboratories   | nuclear physicist into a brand new
[e-mail]             | communications engineer.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!jeeves.waterloo.edu!srnwhite
From: [e-mail] (Shannon White)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 00:06:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> I was just looking at the latest issue of the pulp magazine called The
> National Examiner (July 4, l992) and it mentioned a person that I
> interviewed about 2 months ago by the name of Mr. Harder, who is a
> retired professor from Berkely University. Mr. Harder lectured at the
> Whole Lifer Expo in San Francisco this summer about UFOs. He has done
> a lot of hypnotic work with Betty of the Barney and Betty Hill UFO
                                                            ^^^^
I hate to quibble over facts, but I believe it was Betty and Barney Rubble, not
Hill.  It's important to keep our facts right if people are to believe us.

> incident.  It also mentioned Edith Fiore who believes as many as
> 4,000,000 people have had abduction experiences.
> That's all folks.
> John Winston.

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Send a Message To GOD
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 01:25:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 24

In one article we have:

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>                  STAND UP AND BE COUNTED
>            Declare Spiritual Independence
>                 July 4, 1992
>               GLOBAL INDEPENDENCE '92

and in another:

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>[...]  Hatonn is saying we may have 120 hours of
>darkness starting about July 25, l992 or sometime up to the end of July
>1992.  I hope this doesn't happen. [...]

Personally, I think that the 120 hours of darkness is an alien payback for
our being so presumptuous in shining torches and whatnot on July 4.

:-)

Rhys.
--
Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
[e-mail]  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!RICEVM1.RICE.EDU!LINSCOT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen M. Linscott)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 00:56:27 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
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========================================================================
From: [e-mail] (Stephen M. Linscott)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 92 15:14:41 CDT
Organization: Rice University, Houston, TX

Concerning John's statement:

To  Julian Porter:
You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth
if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth
dimension we are mostly in the third...[rest  deleted]
John Winston.


John - I believe you have your planets confused.  The people of Venus are
ONE DIMENSIONAL (i.e., points) as plainly shown on the images we are
currently receiving.  The people of Jupiter live in the fourth dimension...I
know this because one of them is my neighbor.  He only appears in three
dimensional space on Tuesdays and Fridays, when he carries out his garbage.
He told me there is a massive cover-up by his government - they don't want
the people of Jupiter to know about three dimensional space.

                                            - Steve -
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ukma!rutgers!ub!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 01:07:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6740 sci.skeptic:26710 alt.paranormal:5349

[e-mail] (Christoph Eckert) writes:

> From article <[e-mail]>,
> by [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer):
>
> > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
> > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
> > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
> > something "out there" to be proven?
>
> so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial
> intelligence?
>
> ---
        Could you please explain this strange leap of logic you've made?
Since when does doubt about flying saucers equate with disbelief of
extraterrestrial intelligence? It seems perfectly reasonable that somecould
could accept that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and
doubt that they've been visiting this particular planet.

        You seem to have made a small error in your reasoning. Please correct
it.


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Request: Mars face repost!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 21:27:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 29

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kirk Marcroft) writes:

>Could some one please repost the gif of the Face on Mars?!


>Thanks
>Wookie


Hi Wookie,

it is still on phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) in
/pub/ufo_and_space_pics

if You have FTP access.

Over there there are also the original RAW data frames !

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Subject: NASA-ICE(UFO)-video
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 23:37:20 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 112
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6742 sci.skeptic:26711 alt.conspiracy:16331

Hi,
I just got this info from a friend, who works at NASA right now:




***************************** PROFS Note *****************************
 From: PFORREST--VMSPFHOU            Date and time  07/01/92 16:10:44
 To: POSTMAN --NASAMAIL

 FROM: FORREST, PHILIP R. DM461
 SUBJECT: Yes, I did tape the CNN piece...

 Stefan,

 I taped the CNN Larry King Live Program last Freitag (sp?). The most
 amazing thing about the show is that one of the guests on the program
 works in my office !!! It was so amazing to see a guy you pass in the
 hall at work sit in as a guest on Larry King Live !! - International
 Television !!

 The name of the guy I work with is Jim Oberg. He is a flight controller
 here at Mission Control. The position he works in is called a Guidance
 and Procedures Officer (GPO for short). He is also world renowned for his
 books on the Soviet Space Program. He is a leading western expert in that
 field.

 As for the content of the program...

 I have finally reached the point in my life where I can speak with
 knowledgeable authority on the subject discussed during Larry King
 Live. The guy from UFO magazine was alleging that NASA was involved
 in a cover up with the CIA (ha ha ha!) to keep knowledge of alien
 spacecraft sightings during last year's STS-48 mission. The guy from
 UFO magazine showed a clip of videotape taken during that mission
 when the crew was asleep. (Ground controllers operate the cameras in
 the shuttle's payload bay remotely). What's SO funny about it is that
 the videotape was recorded from a LIVE down-link from NASA to the
 American public !! If there really was a cover-up, why would NASA risk
 sending LIVE video to the public !! It just doesn't make sense.

 Anyway, the video shows an object (really ice) moving across the camera's
 field of view - suddenly, the object changes direction and speeds up !
 Well, I guess to the un-educated, this might look like something an alien
 craft might do; but I have worked here (NASA) long enough to figure out
 what happened.

 When you get the tape from me, keep an eye on the lower left portion of the
 screen. You will see a quick flash of light which immediately precedes
 the object's change of direction. What is happening is an RCS jet firing
 on the shuttle. RCS stands for reaction control system. It is a system
 of small rocket engines (about 800 lbs. of thrust) which control the
 shuttle's pitch, roll, and yaw manuevers in space.

 Anyway, when the crew sleeps (or does something time consuming), the
 Commander will let the on-board computers fly the shuttle through the
 auto-pilot system. In order to hold a given attitude, the auto-pilot
 must fire the RCS jets every so often.

 What was captured on the video was the passing of a chunk of ice in front
 of an RCS jet just as it was firing. The plume of gases sent out by the
 jet caused the ice-pellet to vear off sharply in another direction.

 You may ask, how do I know it was ice ?? - Well, when I worked in the
 Propulsion systems office here at NASA, one of my duties was to catalog
 a history of RCS jet failures. I ran into countless number of jets that
 had failed because of fuel or oxidizer that had leaked passed the primary
 jet valves and frozen in the injector plates (where the fuel and oxidizer
 mix). This would cause the primary valve to get frozen stuck. Somtimes,
 the valve would not freeze completely shut and the next time the
 jet would fire, it would send many little pieces of ice flying out
 from the nozzle. On the video shown on Larry King Live, it looks like
 one of these pieces happen to pass by the plume of another jet when
 it was firing.(Often, the jets must fire in succesion to obtain a
 given attitude or manuever).

 It was absolutely astounding to see the guy from UFO magazine accuse
 Jim Oberg of participating in a cover-up ! It really showed me where a
 lot of these UFO-conspiracy-theorists are coming from. It seems to me
 that if you WANT to see a conspiracy, you WILL see a conspiracy.

 I can tell you flat out that there is no-one from either the CIA, or the
 military telling us here at NASA what to say, or what to do.

 I think that guy from UFO magazine is a good example of why many top
 scientists do not want to be associated with any type of UFO research.
 These full-time UFO researchers need to stop seeing conspiracies where
 there are none, and start seeing the methods of rigorous scientific
 investigation.

 I think after the fruit-cakes get out of the way, maybe some real
 discoveries will be made.

 Gotta Run,

 Phil

 FORREST, PHILIP R. DM461



Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!unix!clipper!kontos
From: [e-mail] (Thorne Kontos)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion
Summary: Other vaguely familiar similarities
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 15:07:32 GMT
References: <f9kl-=#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26712 alt.alien.visitors:6743

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andy Newman) writes:
> I think the text got corrupted in the way to Oz. The bit about JFK
> being killed because he was going to tell the world about the aliens
> (BTW, Reptoids is a great name - weren't they in V?) was missing ;-)
> Andy Newman ([e-mail])

I read this article too, and I got a good laugh out of it. All the
elements of a good alien takeover plot. The Greys (or Greymen?) remind
me too much of the adversary's in Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat
series of sci-fi novels. They too used mind control (via a black box)
and came from a dying planet (so it was covered with ice, same difference)
although if he said waterless world toss in "The man who fell to earth".

Reptoids were indeed too close to the aliens in V. The more I read the
funnier it got.

On a more objective note about alien invaders: Do you honestly think
that a species capable of crossing interstellar distances would
necessarily be benign? Highly doubtful, after all, just examine how
the human species handles its affairs...
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!hamiltl
From: [e-mail] (Leon Hamilton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ALF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 03:14:23 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Lines: 3
Nntp-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool
alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the
best.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 23:22:15 GMT
References: <422800031@peg> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 59

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>> Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more
>> solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947.
>> I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
>> avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
>> UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
>> something "out there" to be proven?
>
>From what I can tell there have been thousands of reported cases of
>"unambiguous detection" and likely far more unreported cases.
>
>For instance, we had a neighbor we had known for over 15 years, quite
>normal, honest, and not given to concocting tall tales.  One clear
>day she and her two sons spotted a UFO hovering several hundred feet
>away, over a corner of the property.  As they watched, a smaller black
> ...
>wave of vertigo.  About two weeks later, also during the middle of the
>day, they were inside the house when they again all experienced a similar
>vertigo.  The younger son exclaimed, "They're back again," and they all
>ran out, where they saw an identical object in the sky in the same position
>as before.  In a few moments, it banked and flew off.  It never returned to
>the area as far as they could determine after that.  Both we and they
>could only conclude that a UFO was unambiguously detected.  It wasn't
>a fabrication; it wasn't swamp gas or the planet Venus, or a weather
>balloon. (Just one example)
>

Did it stay around long enough for anyone to capture a good closeup
photo, preferably a video?

Did it stay around for the police to come and get a close look? Or
the National Guard, better yet?

Did it leave behind any physical evidence that couldn't plausibly be
attributed to something else?

Did a TV news crew get any good closeup footage of it?

Rats! It slipped away AGAIN!

Well, we'll catch them alien buggers next time they come.




--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 23:26:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>If all goes well I hope to spend the next 4 days on some property
>I'm buying on the sides of Mt. Shasta.
>A few very bad predictions and information is coming from
>some of the space people.

  I have some property situated in a strategic position linking Brooklyn
  to lower Manhattan. Might you possibly be interested in buying this?
  I think there's a Ley Line there, too.

  (There *was* an alleged UFO sighting from this bridge, by the way.....)

  Just asking......
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Oh, now come ON, gang.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 23:29:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
>
>        About two weeks ago, I asked if anyone could Email me any material on
>government coverups and UFOs, with perhaps some material on these 'Greys'
>some people have mentioned. And I ain't heard SQUAT yet.
>

   They *could* send it to you. But then you'd have to be silenced.....

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: DEATH TO THE CIA!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 01:55:08 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6748 alt.conspiracy:16336

ARGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 04:49:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston.
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leon Hamilton) writes:
>I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool
>alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the
>best.

But what about ARF?
                        -- K.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd
From: [e-mail] (Dale Redd)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 05:56:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6750 sci.skeptic:26727
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>This seems like a good discussion. May I please put me two cents worth
>in this conversation.  Before I was 22 years old ( and I'm 60 now) I didn't
>give UFO's a serious thought, then on the sides of an Atlas missile at
>Vandenbery AFB in Caif. I got the idea that there was something I had to
>find or do.  I went to Alaska and didn't find it and then came back to
>the San Francisco Bay Area and met a person that became my teacher. He
>taught we many things about UFOs, ESP and other things. To answer one
>of your questions as to why UFOs are important to us I believe you'll
>find as thousand of people are now finding out that all of us existed
>before on other planets and dimensions and it is wake up time.
>That's all folks. John Winston.

Oh boy, here we go again..................

--Dale (protons are my business) Redd
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!koko.csustan.edu!rat!zeus!drowe
From: [e-mail] (Donald H Rowe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 05:51:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>Hello Anybody,
>
>Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave
>that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB)
>held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on
>the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB)
>was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get
>elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think
>Bush said something like
>"He(the alien) is not even wearing any clothes,how can he help with the
>economy."These are  by no means direct quotes,so please no FLAMES.
>
>[stuff deleted...]
>
Yes, I just saw this on the news. Pretty hilarious actually. The Weekly
World News had published pictures of Ross and Bush (separately) with the
alien. Bush said he "felt betrayed" in part because he told the alien that
if the meeting were to take place, he (the alien) wasn't supposed to talk
about it to anyone. This is it, finally the government has admitted to it's
dealings with aliens; I'd expected it to be a bigger story. ;-)

  --Don
---------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]
Cogito ergo sum. Now if only those people who didn't think...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd
From: [e-mail] (Dale Redd)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 07:29:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6752 sci.skeptic:26729
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>To vu02:
>You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment.
>You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good
>type space people and they are being told by the space people that they
>once lived on the same planet or  dimension that the space people are
>coming from.
>John Winston.

Is there any longer a reasonable doubt that this is a put-on?  I vote
for "K".

--Dale
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 03:47:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 49


 > A sizable amount of debate---not all of it being conducted
 > with the air of cool-tempered dispassion one would like to
 > observe on such an occasion---has been sparked by the NASA
 > video and the explanatory hypotheses put forward by "skeptics"
 > and (for lack of a better term) "not-so-skeptics" alike;
 > the meatiest bone of contention seems to have sprung up over
 > Robert Sheaffer's (sorry, Robert, if I spelt your last name
 > incorrectly) statement/explanation that the video depicts
 > nothing more than a chunk of ice obeying Newton's Laws of
 > motion in response to a burst from an attitude-adjustment
 > rocket on the Shuttle, and his defense thereof from the
 > various counterarguments claiming that combinations of
 > camera/Shuttle motions could not account for the movements
 > seen in the tape.
 >
 > It seems eminently more reasonable to invoke Occam's Razor
 > here and go with the simpler "ice particle" explanation than
 > invoke embattled alien spaceships dodging surface-to-air
 > weaponry as the cause for what is seen in the video, unless
 > careful analysis of the images contained therein demonstrates
 > some sort of motion that cannot possibly be reconciled with
 > Robert's "ice particle/booster rocket" scenario, or some other
 > data that positively mitigates against it---such as a concrete
 > determination of the anomalous object's distance from the
 > Shuttle as being on the order of kilometers, for instance---comes
 > to the fore.
 >
 > Until such determinations can be made, I can see no point in
 > proponents and opponents of the "ice theory" verbally clawing
 > each other to shreds over the issue since a fairly convincing
 > explanation has been posited, and no solid (or even semi-solid)
 > refutation has come from the other "school of thought".

I have to agree with you on this.  But, in this debate over what is in that
video, I would ask that NASA demonstrate that it is ice.  This should be easy
enough using their advanced image enhancement equipment.  Something of this
nature should be easy for them to do.  As I would ask on the "not-so-skeptic"
side is the same thing I would ask of the "skeptic" side, and that is:  prove
that it is ice/not ice.  What are the elements of evidence on both sides?  Do
we take the word of NASA that it is ice without reviewing the steps that they
took to arrive at this conclusion?

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A real abduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jul 92 21:34:25 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman  MT
Lines: 9


I have a friend who was abducted by aliens last spring. No kidding,
he experienced missing time and even has a scar from the ordeal.

It was near Brownsville,TX. They demanded his wallet, he said "No!",
so they stabbed him in the arm and clubbed him over the head.


j. raquepas
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jul 92 20:03:13 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman  MT
Lines: 6

Hey, what happened to all of those wonderfull gray recipes?
Things were just starting to get interesting in this group...
and then they stopped.


j raquepas
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!nntp.uoregon.edu!cajal.uoregon.edu!johnm
From: [e-mail] (John Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: REPOST: Mars Face .GIF
Keywords: n
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 12:55:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon
Lines: 573


Here is the repost of the .gif of the face on mars, along with it's
accompanying text file.  The text file follws first, then the uuencoded
..gif:


-----> Text Begins

Keith;
I've taken Loren Carpenter's images and made them into a gif file, which
encludes both the raw data and a filtered or enhanced version of both frames.
Below are Loren Carpenter's original comments.  Maybe you know someone that
is willing to do the same (create .gif files) of the rest of the frames if
you could get them from Loren.
                Steve Leach
From Loren Carpenter;

>I've been reading the chatter on the net about the "Mars face" for some time.
>Most, if not nearly all, of the opinions and observations have been based on
>little or no information.  This is largely because of the difficulty of
>obtaining the original imagery.

>A few years ago when I was with Lucasfilm, I was asked by Mr. Hoagland
>and associates if I would participate in the "Mars Project".  This was
>to be an informal group of technically capable people who could tinker
>around with the "face" and "city" pictures in their spare time.  Work
>being what it was, my spare time evaporated and I drifted away from the group.

>However, for the last 5 years I've had Viking Orbiter pictures 35A72 and
>70A13 on a tape on my shelf.  This posting contains the only two images
>of the "face" returned by Viking.  Both images in this posting are
>100x100 excerpts from 35A72 and 70A13 respectively.

>The data is exactly as I received it.  It's pretty noisy and there is an
>obnoxious riseau mark in one of the images.  Most of the noise appears to
>be caused by "broken bits", i.e. 1 (or maybe 2) bits toggled somewhere
>in the pixel.  I wrote a smart median filter and it cleaned them up fairly
>well.

>For ease of decoding (everybody doesn't have every spiffy decompressor) each
>image is encoded in hexadecimal.  4 lines of text constitute 1 scanline of
>picture.  I have also included the file header for each image.  It contains
>camera and sun information, if you can figure it out...

>The original pictures are 1204x1055, so don't expect to see them on the net.
>Our management won't let other sites log on to ftp files around, so if there
>is someone who wants to be a librarian, I can probably send them the full
>files.

>I haven't done anything serious with these images, so please don't flood me
>with questions.  Personally, I think it's just a pile of dirt.  The Mars
>Observer will have 25x the resolution, so hang on a couple of years and
>we can all see what a pile of dirt looks like up close.

>The excerpts are offset as follows:
>    35A72: 318 in x, 416 in y
>    70A13: 152 in x, 874 in y

>                Loren Carpenter
>                ...{ucbvax,sun}!pixar!loren

>Here is the first one...

>10571600 L 1
>CVO75 1B  PICNO= 035A72        C
>FILTER 4 (CLEAR) EXP   34 MSEC  FGD 111
>CFSC  26588045       OET-GMT  76 207 15 25 14
>TPER +00 12 05
>CRNG=  5239 KM  HFOV=   55 KM  VFOV=   50 KM    SCL=   46  M/PXL
>CSMEAR=  2.5 PXLS
>SMRDIR= 216 DEG FROM UP     HRA 278 DG
>CNOR AZ 154 DG SUN AZ  88 DG S/C AZ 323 DG
>INA 79 DG  EMA 10 DG        CPHA  86 DG
>SUNS LS=  99.2 DG  EDR= CN1244 01  MAX-D=
>CLAT   C= +40.90  UL= +41.14  UR= +40.28  LL= +41.52  LR= +40.65
>CLONG  C=   9.52  UL=   8.76  UR=   9.28  LL=   9.77  LR=  10.28        L

>[data deleted]

>Here is the second one...

>10571600 L 1
>CVO75 1A  PICNO= 070A13        C
>FILTER 4 (CLEAR) EXP   17 MSEC  FGD 111
>CFSC  27280098       OET-GMT  76 243 12 38 33
>TPER +00 09 05
>CRNG=  5085 KM  HFOV=   51 KM  VFOV=   47 KM    SCL=   43  M/PXL
>CSMEAR=  1.3 PXLS
>SMRDIR= 203 DEG FROM UP     HRA 252 DG
>CNOR AZ 170 DG SUN AZ  86 DG S/C AZ 310 DG
>INA 62 DG  EMA 12 DG        CPHA  71 DG
>SUNS LS= 115.6 DG  EDR= CN1475 06  MAX-D=
>CLAT   C= +40.60  UL= +40.96  UR= +40.10  LL= +41.11  LR= +40.25
>CLONG  C=   9.24  UL=   8.64  UR=   8.82  LL=   9.67  LR=   9.84        L

>[data deleted]

-------> Text Ends


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/4ETR(+E+2#'68 ("   [

end





--
John Martin                                        [e-mail]
Institute of Neuroscience,   University of Oregon,    Eugene, OR,    97402
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!ejc109
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: alien replys
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 14:55:32 GMT
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 6

hi just thought you ought to know that i believe in aliens some of the life for
ms you see here on earth there is just no way they can be total humans so they
must be aliens from another planet and the government is doing a good job of co
vering it up even though they know that one day there going to end up having a
real war of the worlds because it says so in the bible so be for warned they ar
e here weather we like it or not.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALF
Keywords: n
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 14:34:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman  MT
Lines: 4

Hey! Don't let the cute ones give you a false sense of security!
After all---that's what they want.   |-)

jr
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!banach.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alien replys
Keywords: n
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 16:38:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman  MT
Lines: 9

Hey, no kidding. The origin of the species of some of the students I
see around campus is certainly a mystery. Perhaps , while we're
not paying attention THEY are sneeking in through the back door by
infesting unpopulated states like Montana. Pretty soon you'll
think "Hey, that's just they way those people are out there. " And
before you know it your daughter will bring one home and want to
marry it.

jr
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!vu0208
From: [e-mail] (!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 18:04:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6760 sci.skeptic:26755
Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>To vu0208:
>You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment.
>You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good
>type space people and they are being told by the space people that they
>once lived on the same planet or  dimension that the space people are
>coming from.
>John Winston.


If the above is true:

How we were brought on "earth" planet?
Why we were down loaded here?
What they want from us now?
Can we go back and live with them?
How do they plan to take us back there..?

- vu0208
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 10:30:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> To  Julian Porter:
> You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth
> if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth
> dimension we are mostly in the third.

I suggest you learn a little geometry.  We do not live in any one particular
dimension - if anything did live in *one* dimension it would be a line.  As it
is, space-time is (according to the best bets at the moment) 3+1 dimensional,
with three being spacial dimensions and the extra 1 a temporal one.  All
objects in the universe are fully four-dimensional in nature.

>  She went through a process that
> lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our
> reality.

This would have no effect whatsoever upon her shape, and would not change the
fact that a body which exist for a period of time is a four-dimensional object.

Again, you can't go about talking in a vague and wooly way about dimensions and
thinking that 'our reality' is different because it only has three dimensions -
what do you think time is?  Dimensions are simply parameters of freedom of
motion and (as the fourth temporal dimension is privileged and set apart from
the other three) it is impossible to hide things away in them.


>  It's sort of like the catapillar that looked up at the beautiful
> butterfly in the sky and  said, "You'll never get me  up in one of those
> things.
> John Winston.

This hasn't actually answered my query - the next thing to ask, is if she does
live in a fourth dimension in some peculiar way, how would her projection to
the spacial dimensions wer are happy with survive on the three dimensional
version of Venus, which is as I suggested before, a not very nice place - it
was well described by somebody I heard on the radio the other night as
somewhere that you would simultaneously be burned, corroded and squashed.

Julian Porter
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 10:37:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> To Julian Porter.
> I believe that you will find that most people who believe  in UFOs
> feel that if their are all those  stars out there and if those stars
> have planets around them then maybe some of  them are coming around
> our Earth  and we are seeing them in their craft.
> John Winston.

You have made many suppositions here - viz (for example) we don't really know
of any well authenticated planetary systems other than this one (the one that was thought to have
been found was discovered to not be one) and we certainly don't know whether
even if there were planetary systems they would house intelligent life.  I
personally think that they would, but it is safer to hedge the bets somewhat.

The next point is simply the semantic one of my earlier post - UFO does not
mean alien space-ship.  The UFO phenomenon is well documented.  However, any
interpretation of this phenomenon should be treated with care, as there is not
yet sufficient evidence to build one.  In my original post I was simply
suggesting that you should be more careful with your use of the term UFO
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 10:40:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6763 sci.skeptic:26757

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> To vu02:
> You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment.
> You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good
> type space people and they are being told by the space people that they
> once lived on the same planet or  dimension that the space people are
> coming from.
> John Winston.

A truly enlightening experience!! (I think confusion wouldbe a better word to
use)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bx304
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jul 92 02:57:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns9.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) says:

>Hello Anybody,
>
>Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave
>that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB)
>held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on
>the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB)
>was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get
>elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think
>Bush said something like
>"He(the alien) is not even wearing any clothes,how can he help with the
>economy."These are  by no means direct quotes,so please no FLAMES.

The story, as it will unfold, is this:

The alien in question is a rich alien from the planet sillyname.
However, he was born inside the US embassy (In 1954) and is therefore a
US citzen and greater than 35 years of age.


This alien plans to use mind-control and hypnosis techniques to force
the free people of the United States of America to vote for him this
November.  This Alien plans to steal the reigns of government out from
under Human hands.

This Alien Story is a Joke.
--
|Jeff Epler                                                          |
| :) (=( =-] (-= Celebrating the variety of faces =-> :^) {-= |-) (: |
|                                                   Lincoln, Nebraska|
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: President Bush Mentions Et
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 20:38:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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 > At any rate I was just curious if any other news stations carried this
 > commment.
 > Other than to try & make Ross Perot look foolish,I can't think of a
 > reason
 > he would even mention something like this ,can you? Will anyone admit to
 > seeing the issue or its contents?

It was on CNN Headline News yesterday with Bush telling the cameras that he
told the ET that it was going to have to be kept secret.  What a joke!

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A Real Abduction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 20:40:01 GMT
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 > I have a friend who was abducted by aliens last spring. No kidding,
 > he experienced missing time and even has a scar from the ordeal.
 >
 > It was near Brownsville,TX. They demanded his wallet, he said "No!",
 > so they stabbed him in the arm and clubbed him over the head.

Now that you have had your fun, I think I hear your mother calling you. :-)

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 09:00:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail](Rod Beckwith) 2 July 92 21:09:46 GMT types-
>did anyone here the excerpt from a press conference President Bush ga
>ve that was aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay area

Well in the 8.5 years I've been listning to the Voice of America I can
recall only once hearing about aliens of the ETOI kind on any news program
& that was this very story(unless Bush has gone on an alien binge) which
if I recall rightly was in The Weekly World News claiming that Alien/s
met with Bush & Ross Perot.Bush replied that he hoped that the alien
wasn't supporting Perot & made a few other remarks that alas reception
didn't permit a comprehension of.

Does this mean Bush is getting desperate? or is it a Perot smear campaign
in which case is it by or against him?.

*******************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OO ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL
*******************************
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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jul 92 21:12:56 GMT
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We've all heard that the truth about UFOs is being covered up, but
many of us nasty, scoffing, skeptics thought this a bunch of childish
or paranoid nonsense.  Well now we have a confirmation of a cover up
from the arch skeptic himself, Phil Klass.  Explain this one away, if
you can!

  Recent (March/April) issu of _International UFO Reporter_ (IUR), the
  bimonthly publication of the Hynek Center for UFO Studies [CUFOS],
  carried a feature story by pro-UFOlogists Zan Overhill, which reveals
  that Ed Walters reported launched hot air balloons to genrate UFO
  reports when he was living in Costa Rica during the 1970s.  Overall
  learned this from Tommy Smith, a friend of Ed's son, who in mid-1990
  revealed that Ed tried to involve him in making hoax UFO-photos in
  late 1987.

  _IUR_ editor Jerome Clark decided to delete several brief segments of
  Overall's article incluting his comment: "While I disagree with Phil
  Klass on most UFO cases, I am quite willing to give the 'bedeviller'
  his due and acknowledge his good work on the Gulf Breeze case,
  particularly regarding the [UFO] model and the house plans [used in
  the model].  I recommend his _Skeptics UFO Newsletter_ to anyon
  wanting to stay up to date on the skeptical view of Gulf Breeze and
  UFOs."  Clark also deleted another compilmentary reference.  [_SUN_'s
  editor understands how excruciatingly painful it would have been for
  Clark to publish any such compliment in _IUR_.]

From "The Skeptics UFO Newsletter by Phillip J. Klass", July, 1992, p. 5.

I note that, so far as I know, MUFON is still suppressing the report
on Gulf Breeze submitted by their own investigators.  Has anyone seen
the Salisbury's report?  Is it really juicy?  Why won't MUFON publish
it?

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!libws2.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio
From: [e-mail] (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Perot for President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jul 92 21:59:30 GMT
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        This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the
    People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the
    1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the
    clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the
    job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing
    and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your
    country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the
    next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the
    likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance.


                                - David Tiberio
                                  6 Lodge Lane
                                  East Setauket, New York 11733



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                             Who is Ross Perot?

        Background information indicates the following about Ross Perot:

    -   Honest and forthright.
        Honors commitments to subordinates and others.
        Resolute and determined in anything he undertakes.

    -   Independently wealthy and has character traits indicating that he will
        not sellout the nation's interest for personal gain.

    -   Will pursue the public interest with commitment & determination.

    -   Denounces special privileges or exemptions from law for elected officials.

    -   Believes that the American public should be informed of the true facts
        and be afforded more influence over their government.

    -   Believes that the predominance of foreign and special-interest influence
        over government decisions should stop.

    -   Believes that former elected and appointed officials should not be able
        to sell their job influence and connections.

    -   Understands that our government's economic failings are leading it toward
        ruin and commits to reversing that trend.

    -   Believes in fundamental, long-term solutions to our problems instead
        of quick fixes or silence (as with the S&L's in 1986-88).

    -   Sees stopping the recent decline of the nation's job base as critical and
        the creation of industrial jobs as a top priority.

    -   Believes in a possibility and a necessity to reduce government spending,
        and that there is substantial wasteful spending.

    -   Has demonstrated an ability as an interested private citizen to work
        effectively on important public issues.

    -   Knows the difference between appearance and substance, and pursues the
        latter.

    -   Is a problem solver - and we have problems to solve! His personal demeanor
        is analytical and straight-forward.

    -   Has expressed a willingness to undertake a supreme challenge against
        great odds and wee-entrenched, powerful interests.


                                                    Bruce Martin
                                                    Bainbridge Island, WA


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                            Biography of Ross Perot



        Ross Perot was born June 27th, 1930, in Texarkana, Texas. He grew up
    in Texarkana where he attended public schools and Texarkana Junior college.

        Perot's parents, Ross and Lulu May Perot, have been the major influences
    in both his and his sister Bette's lives. Although the family lived in
    modest circumstances, Perot has repeatedly stated that he was born rich
    because of his parents.

        Beginning at age seven, Perot worked at various jobs throughout his
    boyhood, including: breaking horses, selling Christmas cards, selling
    garden seeds, selling magazines, buying and selling bridles and saddles,
    buying and selling horses and calves, delivering newspapers, and collecting
    for classified ads.

        He entered the United States Naval Academy in 1949 and graduated in 1953.
    While at the Naval Academy, he served as class president, chairman of the
    honor commitee, and battalion commander.

        After graduation, Perot served at sea for four years on a destroyer and
    an aircraft carrier.

        In 1956, he married Margot Birmingham from Greensburg, Pennsylvania whom
    he met while a midshipman at the Naval Academy. Upon his honorable discharge
    from the Navy in 1957, Ross and Margot settled in Dallas where he went to work
    for IBM's data processing division as a salesman.

        Margot taught school during the early of years of their marriage. In 1962,
    she loaned Perot $1,000 from her savings account to start a one-man data
    processing company. He named the company Electronic Data Systems. Today, EDS
    is a multi-billion dollar corporation, employing more than 70,000 people.

        Ross and Margot have been married for thirty-five years. They live in
    Dallas. They have five children - Ross Jr., Nancy, Suzanne, Carolyn, and
    Katherine. The Perots currently have four grandchildren, and are looking
    forward to the births of two more this year.

        In 1969, the US government asked Perot to determine what action might be
    taken to improve the brutal treatment out POW's were receiving in Southeast
    Asia. He worked on this project for the next four years placing himself and
    his family at considerable risk, until the prisoners were released in 1973
    at the end of the war. In recognition of his efforts, Perot received the Medal
    for Distinguished Public Service, the highest civilian award presented by the
    Department of Defense.

        When two EDS employees were taken hostage by the Iranian government in
    1979, Perot directed a successful rescue mission composed of EDS employees and
    led by Colonel Arthur "Bull" Simons. Perot personally went to Iran, and inside
    the prison where his associates were held. Noted author, Ken Follett, wrote a
    best selling novel, On Wings of Eagles, about the rescue. An NBC Television
    miniseries was later made about this event.

        Later that same year, the governor of Texas requested Perot's help in
    dealing with the growing problem of the use of illegal drugs in the state.
    Perot led the Texan's War on Drugs committee that proposed five laws to make
    Texas the least desirable state for illegal drug operations. All five bills
    were passed by the legislature and signed into law.

        In 1984, another Texas governor asked for Perot's assistance with a
    deteriorating situation - the quality of public education in the state.
    Recognizing that a first-class educational system is the foundation for
    economic improvement, Perot led the effort to reform the school system. This
    program resulted in major legislative changes and improvements in Texas public
    schools.

        Perot accepted another challenge that same year when he sold EDS to General
    Motors for $2.5 billion. The ownership that he retained in the company made him
    GM's largest individual stockholder and a member of the board of directors.
    After major disagreements over the quality of GM automobiles, Perot resigned
    from the GM board in 1986.

        In 1988, Perot started a new computer service company, Perot Systems. Today
    the company operates in the United States and Europe.


        Perot has been the recipient of numerous awards and honors, including:

      - The Winston Churchill Award. Perot was the third recipient and the
        only businessman to receive this award, given to those who best exemplify
        the imagination, boldness, and vigor of the late British prime minister.
        The presentation was made by Prince Charles in 1986.

      - The Raoul Wallenberg Award. As the first recipient of this award, Perot
        was honored for a lifetime of service that embodies the spirit, courage,
        and dedication of Raoul Wallenberg, the Swedish diplomat who saved more
        than 100,000 Hungarian Jews from the Nazis during World War II.

      - The Jefferson Award for Public Service

      - The Patrick Henry Award. Perot was the first recipient of this award
        given to an American for outstanding service to his country.

      - The National Business Hall of Fame Award.

      - The Sarnoff Award for contributions to the electronics industry.

      - The Eisenhower Award for support of our Armed Forces.

      - The Smithsonian Computerworld Award. As the first recipient of this
        award, Perot was recognized for his contributions to the computer
        industry.

      - The Horation Alger Award. This award is presented to individuals who
        overcome obstacles to achieve significant successin their careers.


        In 1984, Perot purchased the only copy of the Magna Carta that has been
    allowed to be taken out of Great Britain. It has been placed on loan to the
    National Archives in Washington, DC where it is displayed alongside the
    Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

        The Perot family is actively involved in charitable and civic activities
    to help the needy. they have given over $100 million to these causes.





          EXCERPTS  FROM ROSS PEROT'S REMARKS TO THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB

                                    March 18, 1992

        "We own this country. It belongs to us..."

        "We don't like to accept this, but we live in a tiny little world and
    we're stuck with international competition. You don't have to like it but
    you're stuck with it - somebody winds and somebody loses and they don't even
    give you a red ribbon when you lose in business."

        "We've got to out-think, out-invent, and out-produce our international
    business competitors if we want to maintain the high standard of living that
    our people have enjoyed until now. Many of our international competitors have
    an advantage over us at this point. We had the world's greatest economin
    engine that let us do these things. We let it slip away and with it went a
    significant part of our tax base... Our present policies will move us from
    superpower to third world status."


    On the deficit:

        "Unfortunately, [Washington] has become a town filled with sound bites,
    shell games, handlers, media stunt men who posture, create images and talk,
    shoot off roman candles, but don't ever accomplish anything..."

        "We're $4 trillion dollars in debt. We owe another $5 trillion we don't
    like to talk about - just try to keep it down there in the basement. You say,
    Ross, what are you talking about? I'm talking about a $1 trillion unfunded
    federal pension liability. Any question in your mind we're going to have to
    cough that up someday?"

        "The additional debt piled up in 1992, just this one year, the election
    year, will exceed the total expenditures of the federal government of the
    first 155 years of our country's existence."

        "See, the man on the street deson't know what $400 billion is - that kind
    of clears his head. The interest on the national debt just this year exceeds
    the cost to fight and win World War II. Please never forget that paying
    interest does not buy anything for the American people."

        "The national debt was only $1 trillion in 1980 when President Reagan took
    office. It is now $4 trillion. maybe it was voodoo economics. Whatever it was,
    we are now in deep voodoo, I'll tell you that."


    On why we're in this mess:

        "We were told at the tax and budget summit that the 5-year budget deficit
    would be $92 billion; now we're told it will be $1 trillion - that's just a
    $900 billion mistake. The chief financial officer of a publically held
    corporation would be sent to prison if he kept books like our government..."

        "Now, who's at fault? The first thing you have to do in our country is
    blame somebody, right? Well, go home tonight and look in the mirror... You
    and I are at fault because we own this country and there is the problem in a
    nutshell. We have abdicated our ownership responsibility. As owners of this
    country, we hold the future of this country in the palm of our hands."

        "I feel that as owners of this country that if we're going anywhere
    you've got to send [elected officials] a message; You work for us; we don't
    work for you. Under the Constitution, you are our servants. Grow up! Work as
    a team. Serve the people. Solve the problem, move on to the next one. Build a
    better country and stop throwing away money we don't have."


    On elections:

        "Why do we have elections on Tuesday? [A] working fellow can't get there.
    Let's have elections on Saturday and Sunday. Why can't we leave the polls
    open two days?"


    What can be done?

        "Here are a few basic facts - things we've got to do. We're deeply in
    debt. We're spending beyond our means. We've got to protect the job base...
    That's where the taxes come from. People who do not work cannot pay taxes...
    We need strong, growing companies to keep America at work and that has got to
    be our highest priority."

        "We can help in the government level be ceasing the adversarial practices
    with business and not getting our pockets picked in international trade
    negotiations. In our country there is an adversial relationship between
    government and business and [with] our international competitors who are
    winning. There is an intelligent, supportive relationship between government
    and business."


    On education:

        "Our educational system has to be the finest in the world. We know what
    needs to be done... Let's stop having two-day summits with governors that
    don't amount to anything, and let's get down to blocking and tackling and
    fixing it now because you won't have the benefits for 15-20 years. Every day
    is precious and we just talk about it."


    On business:

        "You've got to have strategic plans by industry - there are industries
    we've just got to keep in this country and we're losing them right and left.
    We've got to target them; they will create millions of jobs. We've got to make
    sure that we're first and best. In Japan, that's called MITI [Ministry of
    International Trade and Industry]. Study it. Analyze it. Inprove on it,
    instead of trying to dismantle our companies."

        "Washington's principal contribution to American industry is to try to
    break its legs every day. Anybody that's a businessman will tell you that."


    On taxes:

        "Our current tax system is like an old inner tube with 1,000 patches. I
    suggest we throw it out and start with a blank sheet of paper. Set the
    criteria. Number 1, it must be fair, Number 1A, it's got to raise the
    revenues. Number 2, it should be paperless for most Americans. This is nothing
    more than running several different computer models, building consensus with
    the American people and moving forward with a new tax system that works."


    On raising taxes:

        "You've got to take away Congress' right to raise taxes - now there's a
    radical idea... If they need more money, just put it on the ballot and let
    the owners of the country sign it off... [and] from now on if they want to
    raise, put it on the ballot... Give the president the line item veto to get
    rid of pork barrel and waste..."


    On trade:

        "The White House is all excited about the new trade agreement with Mexico.
    This agreement will move the highest paid, blue-collar jobs from the U.S. to
    Mexico. This is going to create some serious damage to our tax base during
    this critical period. We have got to manufacture here not there to keep our
    tax base intact..."

        "There is no place to run, no place to hide, you've got to make the words
    'made in the U.S.A' the world's standard for excellence once again. Otherwise
    people won't buy our products. If you wonder about that, just go home and look
    at your television and your consumer electronics tonight. Look at the car
    you're driving. We can help on the government level by ceasing the adversarial
    practices with businesses and not getting our pockets picked at international
    trade negotiations."


    On public service:

        "Congress absolutely must not exempt itself from the laws it imposed on
    us... Stop cashing in on public service. Pass a law [that]... Former federal
    officials, elected, appointed and career service officials, cannot serve as
    lobbyists for domestic interests for five years after they leave office. They
    cannot lobby for foreign countries, companies or individuals for 10 years and
    there are criminal penalties if you do... You don't come to Washington to
    cash in, you come to serve people. Pass a law to make it a criminal offense
    for foreign companies or individuals to influence laws or policies with money."


    On spending:

        "We spend over $400 billion a year on education, including colleges, yet
    we rank at the bottom of the industrialized world in terms of academic
    achievement. We have the largest number of functional illiterates in the
    industrialized world... We spend a lot on education that doesn't work. We spend
    more than anybody else on health care, and yet we rank behind 15 nations in
    life expectancy and 22 other nations in infant mortality."

        "We need fundamental long-term solutions to these problems, and at this
    point we're running around in Washington with a hyperdermic needle loaded
    with Novocain trying to give everybody quick, temporary pain relief just to
    get past election."


    On citizen involvement:

        "You say, 'All right, Ross. Which one of the presidential candidates can
    fix this?' Solomon can't fix this - the wisest man that ever lived. You know
    why? Because we have to fix it. You cannot just go vote in November, send some
    poor devil up there and go home. You're going to have to get in the ring, stay
    in the ring and act like you own this country."

        "In summary, we own this country. Government should come from us... We've
    got to put the country back in control of the owners. In plain Texas talk,
    it's time to take out the trash and clean the barn or it's going to be too
    late."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        If you would like to know more about Ross Perot, please feel free to
    call the Long Island headquarters or your local regional coordinator. We are
    hoping to here from organizers in other regions as well. And tell them that
    David Tiberio sent you.


    Long Island, New York Headquarters: [phone]
                                        (516) 872-ROSS / [phone]

    Suffolk County Office               [phone]
                                        [phone]

        Or write to:

            Perot for President
            c/o  Mr. John G. Plevjak
            34 Hay Road
            Shirley, New York 11967-3715
            [phone]


            Perot for President
            c/o  David Tiberio
            6 Lodge Lane
            East Setauket, New York 11733


            [e-mail]
            [e-mail] (preferred)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                        H ROSS PEROT for PRESIDENT

                     Together, We Can Make It Happen!



                       Call Us If You Want A Change

                              [phone]
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    RETURN TO:  Mr John G Plevjak
                34 Hay Road
                Shirley, New York 11967-3715


                David Tiberio
                6 Lodge Lane
                East Setauket, New York 11733



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN
     //  bounce-resistant:    [e-mail]
   \X/         Liverpool, New York       Perot for President
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Thanks for the replies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jul 92 20:08:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 9


        I just recieved about twenty-two letters chock full of information
regarding the saucers, the Greys, and whatnot. Thanks to all concerned.


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!ts
From: [e-mail] (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jul 92 23:24:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 1
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26780 alt.paranormal:5352 alt.alien.visitors:6771

Is a UFO coverup like a car bra?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!percy!agora!krowell
From: [e-mail] (Keith Rowell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bush reads tabloid story re aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jul 92 22:22:22 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Keith Rowell)
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Lines: 60

A strange article showed up recently in newspapers. The
following article was accompanied by a photo showing President
Bush clearly reading the July 14, 1992, issue of the World Weekly
News tabloid! Helen Thomas, a long time member of the Washington
press corps, is visible in the lower left corner of the photo.

From the (Portland) Oregonian, July 3, 1992:

A Creature From Exotic Planet Tabloid Deserts Bush
by Rita Beamish
The Associated Press

WASHINGTION -- This just in! Alien deserts Bush campaign to sign up
with Ross Perot! President peeved!

There it was on Page 4 of the Weekly World News -- a purported
photograph of Bush with the extraterrestrial. And on the tabloid's
front page, a purported photo of Perot and the alien walking down
the corridor of a Dallas office.

"This is not fair," the president complained when he spied a copy of
the tabloid at this Capitol news conference Thursday.

He picked up the newspaper, which he clearly had seen before, and
went straight to Page 4. There was Bush with a bald, smooth-bodied
creature who had a humanlike face and thin, plastic-looking body.

The caption read:

"President Bush, who met with the extraterrestrial in 1991, feels
betrayed by the alien's visit with Perot, say administration
insiders."

"I told him to keep this thing secret," Bush complained.

Then he began reading the headline: "Extraterrestrial who met with
George Bush at Camp David."

Bush continued: "I told him, I said, 'If I'm going to meet with you,
never discuss it.'"

In mock lament, he added, "I thought he was for me all along, and
there he is" with Perot.

A reporter wanted to know what all this had to do with health care,
the ostensible subject of Bush's news conference.

Bush turned to another topic of the day and said, "It has to do with
unemployment. The guy doesn't even have a suit."

The tabloid wrote that Perot "secretly met with a space alien late
last spring and we've got the photograph to prove it!"

"Perot insiders confirm that possible trade and cooperation
initiatives between the alien's home planet and the United States
were discussed."

The story did not explain how the alien's height matched both Bush
and Perot in the two photographs. Bush is 6-foot-2 and Perot is 5-
foot-6.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: INVASION !!!!! again !!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 02:56:07 GMT
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation
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?~?~3;1;2;4;8;9;15c2;4;8;9;15c

                               ____________
                              | ___    ___ |
                              |/ 0 |  | 0 \|
                                   |  |
                                   |  |
                                   |  |
                                   |__|

                   ------------



    OK Mr Stollman I'll play your game.

    You are attempting to attract attention, either that or you have
    some serious emotional problems.

    I like some sci-fi at times so how about you tell us your story
    Mr Stollman, it might amuse someone and then perhaps you can shut
    up.


                    Brenton Thomas
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From: [e-mail] (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Perot for President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 05:36:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:
>        This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the
>    People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the
>    1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the
>    clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the
>    job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing
>    and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your
>    country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the
>    next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the
>    likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance.

<lengthy endorsement of Perot deleted>

That's all very nice, but does he know how to build a perpetual motion
machine?
--
Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear              [e-mail]
Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California
Video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!sml108
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Perot for President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 02:37:49 GMT
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What better a place to recruit Perot supporters than alt.alien.visitors?

Mind you, I love the way he's scaring the poopoo out of certain oval office
occupiers, but given that one of their jibes against Perot is that he's
obsessed with weird conspiracy theories, don't you think you'd be helping
him more by not posting this here?

Of course if those rumors about Perot and the space alien are true, well
then he's a must vote!  Let's ask Gary Stollman who we should vote for!

Scott
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!mips!tsoft!techie
From: [e-mail] (Robert Mc Daniel)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 06:51:48 GMT
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Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6776 sci.skeptic:26783 alt.paranormal:5353

> > > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
> > > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
> > > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
> > > something "out there" to be proven?
> >
> > so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial
> > intelligence?
> >
> > ---
>         Could you please explain this strange leap of logic you've made?
> Since when does doubt about flying saucers equate with disbelief of
> extraterrestrial intelligence? It seems perfectly reasonable that somecould
> could accept that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and
> doubt that they've been visiting this particular planet.
>
>         You seem to have made a small error in your reasoning. Please correct
> it.

I wholeheartedly concur. I happen to hold that opinion....


--
Robert Mc Daniel ([e-mail])
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dulce Report - Part 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 03:20:07 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Michael Corbin
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:18

<..Continued from previous message>>



                           An Overview

                            Re: Dulce

 The  Town of Dulce, is located in northern New Mexico  near  the
southern border of Colorado. Dulce is located eighty-three  miles
northeast  of  Farmington, New Mexico on U.S. Route 64.  See  Map
Exhibit 1.

 It has a population of 1,648 and is nestled in a valley. Just to
the  north and overlooking the town is the large Archuleta  Mesa.
The  town  is at an altitude of 6,825 feet above sea  level.  The
main  income producing activity in the area is  cattle  ranching.
The  business and service activities are typical of those  needed
in a community of this size. There are no military or  industrial
activities, large or small, in the area. See Photo Exhibits 4 and
5.

 In  order  to  present the results of our  investigation  it  is
necessary  to refer to items of information, widely available  to
UFO  researchers, concerning the Dulce, U.S.\Alien base.  In  the
following, we will quote from those items of information. We will
attempt  to identify the source whenever possible. This  will  be
followed by our findings.


                        The Investigation

1) Source Information Excerpts: Dulce Papers.Txt Author Unknown

 ...A  joint  US/EBE facility exists beneath the  Archuleta  Mesa
near the town of DULCE NEW MEXICO. (1A) This facility has been in
existence in one form or another since 1948.

 (1B)   ...The   facility  proper  is   located   one   kilometer
underground.

 (1C) The base is approximately 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, and
almost overlooks the town.

 (1D)  There is a paved government road 36 feet wide  going  into
the area.

 * * *

 Findings  of Phoenix Project Investigation (PHX)  regarding  the
foregoing:

 (PHX-1A)  No substantiating County records confirm  this.  Local
residents have no memory of any government installation, civilian
or military ever having existed in this area.

 (PHX-1B)  Same  as  1A.  There is no record  or  memory  of  any
underground heavy construction, excavation, or mining activity in
the area.

 (PHX-1C) See Map Exhibit 3.

 (PHX-1D)  See Map Exhibits 2 and 3, and Photo Exhibits 6 and  7.
The  road  in question is Indian Reservation Road # J-2.  It  has
never  been labeled a "government" road. This road is not  paved,
as  described  in the source material. It is a narrow,  two  lane
dirt  road (barely twenty (20) feet wide that is completely  open
for public use.

 * * *
 2) Source Information Excerpts: 1988 Krill2.Txt

 ...During  the  occupation of the Greys, they  have  established
quite  a  number  of  underground  bases  all  over  the   world,
especially in the United States. (2A) One such base (among others
in  the same state) is under Archuleta Mesa, which is  about  2.5
miles northwest of Dulce, New Mexico.

 The  foregoing  extract is from a transcript of  a  conversation
between Jim McCampbell and Dr. Paul Bennewitz on July 13, 1984.

 * * *

                            Findings:

 (PHX-2A)   This  refers  to  the  previously  mentioned   Indian
Reservation Road # J-2. The road at this point is at the base  of
the Archuleta Mesa. See Map Exhibit 3 and Photo Exhibit 7.

 * * *

3) Source Information Excerpts: 1988 Krill2.Txt

 (3A) ...Bennewitz reports he was able to determine the  location
of  the  underground facility: a  kilometer  underground  beneath
Archuleta  Mesa on the Jicarilla Apache Indian  Reservation  near
Dulce,  New  Mexico  (since 1976, one of the areas  of  the  U.S.
hardest hit by mutilations). (3B) Bennewitz' information is  that
this  installation  is operated jointly as part  of  an  on-going
program of cooperation between the U.S. government and the EBEs.

<Continued in next message..>

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dulce Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 03:20:06 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Michael Corbin
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:17

The following was uploaded by a user on ParaNet.  It is being provided in its
entirety for information purposes only.  ParaNet or its affiliates makes no
claims to its truthfulness or validity and does not endorse its contents in any
way.

As a further note:  Under paragraph (3E), it mentions that there are buildings
with "five-sided with a dome," ParaNet has seen photographic evidence of such
buildings.  These buildings are not buildings as one would think of them, but
what appear to be wilderness observation platforms.  The Dulce Report denies
any of these buildings appeared in their investigation.

                        THE DULCE REPORT
                          NUMBER 920527

                          MAY 27, 1992

              A Field Investigation and Evaluation

                    A PHOENIX PROJECT REPORT
                  The "Phoenix Project Reports"
                        Are Published By
                    ADVENT PUBLISHING COMPANY
                          P.O. Box 3748
                      Carson City, NV 89702

               Entire Contents Copyright (c) 1992
                               by
                       The Phoenix Project

                              Logo
                  A Registered Trademark tm (r)
Permission to quote is granted provided
The Phoenix Project is acknowledged as the source and the  Report

Title and Date are included in any quotes.
Reproduction  of any Phoenix Project Report or Logo, in any  form
or by any means is not permissible without written  authorization
from the publisher.

                  WHAT IS THE PHOENIX PROJECT?

 The   Phoenix   Project  is  a   private,   civilian,   research
organization   formed  in  1952  to  investigate  and   correlate
information  concerning  Unidentified Flying Objects  (UFOs)  and
Extra-Terrestrial (ET) activities. It has no affiliation with the
United  States Government or any of its agencies. Because of  the
nature of its work the Phoenix Project does not seek publicity.

 Staff  members are former military personnel who have  all  been
associated  with intelligence activities, and have  knowledge  of
covert government operations concerning UFO's. Their knowledge of
the  specialized  field of  ~intelligence  correlation,~  provide
unique insights into various subject matter.

 From  time-to-time  and  in the  public  interest,  the  Phoenix
Project will publish research reports regarding certain subjects.
A   list  of  reports  is  available  from  our  publisher.   All
correspondence should be addressed to:

The Phoenix Project
C/O Advent Publishing Company
P.O. Box 3748
Carson   City,  NV   89702
[[Contributor's Note ... A complete printed copy of this  report,
including  all  exhibits, can be obtained for a minimal  cost  by
contacting the above address]]

                         IMPORTANT NOTE

 The  name  "Phoenix" is used by many  different  publishers  and
organizations  as  a  part  of the name  used  in  their  various
publications.

 To  avoid any false association with or confusion that might  be
caused  by  a  similar name, all  publications  of  the  "Phoenix
Project"  bear the Project's Logo (a registered  trade-mark)  and
are  published  exclusively  by Advent  Publishing  Company.  The
"Phoenix  Project" is not affiliated with any other  publication,
publisher, organization or group.

 In particular, there is no affiliation with a publisher known as
America  West, any of its publications, or the individuals  known
as George and Desiree Green, all of Tehachapi, California.



                        The Dulce Report


   In recent years, volumes of information have circulated within
the  UFO research community regarding the alleged presence  of  a
joint U.S.\Alien base in the area of Dulce, New Mexico.

 In  an attempt to either prove or disprove the information,  the
Phoenix  Project  has completed an intense investigation  of  the
Dulce area. Our investigation encompassed the following:

 1.  A detailed physical search of the Archuleta Mesa by  vehicle
and on foot.

 2. The physical exploration of a large area surrounding the Town
of Dulce.

 3.  Interviews with local citizens, native American  Indians  of
the  Jicarilla  Apache Indian Reservation and Rio  Arriba  County
Sheriff and highway maintenance personnel.

 4.  A  search of County building and  construction  permits  and
records, and interviews to determine if any large scale  civilian
or  government  construction projects ever occurred in  the  area
from 1930 to the present.

 5.  A  comprehensive  aerial survey  and  airborne  magnetometer
survey  of the Archuleta Mesa, the Town of Dulce,  the  Archuleta
Mesa, and surrounding areas.

<Continued in next message..>

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dulce Report - Part 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 03:21:08 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Michael Corbin
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:19

<<..Continued from previous message>>


 Back  to the base under discussion. After Bennewitz briefed  Air
Force officials on what he had found, a trip to the area revealed
the following data:

 (3C)  The  base  is 2.5 miles northwest  of  Dulce,  and  almost
overlooks  the town. (3D) There is a level highway 36  feet  wide
going  into the area. It is a government road. (3E) One  can  see
telemetry trailers and buildings that are five-sided with a dome.
Next to the domes, a black limousine was noted -- a CIA  vehicle.
(3F) These limos will run you off the road if you try to get into
the  area. (3G) To the north there is a launch site.  (3H)  There
are  two wrecked ships there; they are 36 feet long  with  wings,
and one can see oxygen and hydrogen tanks. The ships that we  got
out  of  the  trade are atomic-powered  with  plutonium  pellets.
Refueling  of the plutonium is accomplished at Los  Alamos.  (3I)
The base has been there since 1948.

 Some of the disks are piloted by the NSA. (3J) The base is 4,000
feet long (3K) and helicopters are going in and out of there  all
the  time. When it became known that Bennewitz was familiar  with
this,  the  mutilations  in  the  area  stopped.  (3L)  In  1979,
something happened and the base was temporarily closed. There was
an  argument  over weapons and our people were  chased  out.  The
aliens killed 66 of our people, and 44 got away.

 One  of  the people who in fact got away was a  CIA  agent  who,
before leaving, made some notes, photos, and videotapes, and went
into  hiding.  He has been in hiding ever since,  and  every  six
months  he  contacts each of five people he left  copies  of  the
material  with.  His  instructions were that if  he  missed  four
successive contacts, the people could do whatever they want  with
the  material  and  was  received  in  December,  1987,  by  many
researchers.  The  "Dulce Papers" were composed of 25  black  and
white  photos, a videotape with no dialogue and a set  of  papers
that   included  technical  information  regarding  the   jointly
occupied   (U.S.-Alien)  facility  one  kilometer   beneath   the
Archuleta  Mesa near Dulce, New Mexico. (3M) The  facility  still
exists and is currently operational.

 * * *

Findings:

 (PHX-3A) Refer to (PHX-1A & 1B.

 (PHX-3B)  Refer to (PHX-1A & 1B). There are no records,  nor  is
there any physical evidence to substantiate this allegation.

 (PHX-3C)   The  elevation  at  the  location  described,   where
Reservation Road J-2 crosses the Navajo River, is not high enough
to  overlook the Town of Dulce. The road is not level and  it  is
not 36-feet wide. See Map Exhibit 2.

 (PHX-3D)  See (PHX-1D). The road is not level and it is not  36-
feet  wide.  It is a narrow dirt road that climbs,  slowly,  with
many curves, around the base of Archuleta Mesa. See Photo Exhibit
7.

 (PHX-3E)  Local residents and County highway  maintenance  crews
have  no  memory  of  any  such  trailers,  buildings,  domes  or
limousines in this area. Physical investigation reveals there  is
no area where such structures ever existed.

 (PHX-3F) The Rio Arriba County Sheriff's Office has no record of
any reports, ever, having been filed by motorists forced off  the
road  by "any" type vehicle. As mentioned previously, this  is  a
Reservation  Road used by the Indians, ranchers and  the  general
public.  If  any  occurrences,  such  as  those  described   ever
occurred, it would have been the "talk-of-the-town." No residents
interviewed, remember any such events.

 (PHX-3G)  Physical investigation, on foot, failed to reveal  any
evidence of a "launch" site at the location described.

 (PHX-3H)  There  are no physical indications of  any  kind,  and
there  are no cleared areas of sufficient size to  provide  space
for  two  crashed ships or the oxygen and fuel  tanks  described.
This  includes  both sides of the road, all the  way  around  the
mesa. See Map Exhibit 3.

 (PHX-3I) There are no indications of any such facilities. No one
remembers  any  such facilities. Such facilities  are  not  there
today.

 (PHX-3J)  A complete examination of the area and the top of  the
mesa show no evidence of any 4000 foot long cleared area. If such
ever existed, scars in the landscape would still be present.  See
Map Exhibit 3.

 (PHX-3K)  Physical examination does not reveal past  or  present
helicopter landing pads anywhere in the area. Local residents  do
not  remember any extensive helicopter activity, of any kind,  in
the area.

 (PHX-3L)  There  is no record or local memory  of  any  military
presence,  garrison, or troop movements, past or present, in  the
Dulce area. Since there is only one major highway into and out of
Dulce,  the presence of any military truck convoys or  ambulances
would  not  have gone unoticed by the local  residents.  And,  as
mentioned  previously, there has never been any major  helicopter
activity that could have brought in airborne troops.

<Continued in next message..>

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dulce Report - Part 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 03:21:09 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Michael Corbin
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:20

<<<..Continued from previous message>>>


 (PHX-3M)  Contrary to the statements in the Krill2  information,
there is no physical indication of any installation in the  Dulce
area or in, around or underneath the Archuleta Mesa. Both  ground
and  aerial  surveys  do  not  indicate  any  suspicious  terrain
features.

 An airborne magnetometer survey of the described areas reveal no
unusual underground features that could be interpreted as a large
underground base. If an underground base was located 1-KM beneath
the  Archuleta  Mesa,  and it was 3-KM wide  by  8-KM  long,  its
presence  would be revealed by the magnetometer. Any  underground
facility  of the size described would be easily detected even  if
it was buried 5-KM below the mesa. It would be more than obvious.
It  would  "shout" its presence. The Magnetometer  Contour  Chart
indicates   no  hidden  underground  facility  or   any   unusual
excavations or caverns. See Exhibit-9.

 * * *

4)  Source  Information  Excerpts:  PROJECT  BETA  BY  DR.   PAUL
BENNEWITZ

 (4A)...numerous  road blocks extend northward.  (4B)  Maintained
road some thirty feet wide and servicing facilities, tanks,  etc.
There  is also an apparent foundation for another helo  pad______
(4C)  human  housing,  and another black  limousine  with  tracks
leading to it west of the road.

 ...The  total  alien  basing area  apparently  contains  several
cultures, (all under the designation 'unity') (4D) and is  approx
3km  wide by 8km long and is located in the middle of nowhere  on
the Jicarilla Indian Reservation west of Dulce, NM.

 ...Based  on  the number of ships presently in  this  area,  the
total alien population is estimated to be at least 2,000 and most
likely more.

 ----- Logistical plans -----

 ...initial   logistics  would  indicate  a   plan   sequentially
implemented   as  follows:  This  plan  does  not   include   all
requirements  and preparatory safety measures to be  employed  by
the  ground force; however, if Air Force Intelligence desires  to
pursue the approaches suggested in this report, each  significant
requirement will be discussed in depth.

 (4E)  The attack must be directed almost entirely on the  ground
since   vehicle  ignition  problems  will  be  encountered.   All
electrical  and  electronic equipment must  be  'hardened'  using
specific  techniques  perfected  prior  to  implementation.  This
information has been checked by interaction and eavesdropping  on
their  communication  channels _______as far  as  weaknesses  are
concerned. The program would be instigated in phases:

 (4F)
   1) The first procedure would be to close the gates of the  dam
above  the  Navajo River. This dam could be held closed  for  the
duration.  Internal  to the one cave, there is a  small  dam  for
water storage. Its capacity is small.

 (4G)  There is also a discharge outlet downstream that could  be
closed, causing waste water to back up into the caves. The  water
is vacuum pumped apparently by some electrostatic means from  the
river. (4H) There is a water intake and dam upstream that can  be
totally cut off and the water re-routed to Chama, New Mexico.

 * * *

Findings:

 (PHX-4A) There are no roadblocks on any roads in the Dulce Area.
See  Photo  Exhibit 7, of Reservation Road # J-2.  There  are  no
roadblocks  present. According to County Maintenance  Crews,  the
only time Road J-2 was blocked was years ago when it was "washed-
out" by heavy rains in the area.

 (PHX-4B)  Reservation Road # J-2, 2.5 miles northwest of  Dulce,
is  a  narrow,  winding,  dirt  road.  It  does  not  match   the
description in the source information.

 (PHX-4C)  No  such facilities exist. No one ever  remembers  the
existence of any such facilities.

 (PHX-4D)  Investigations  on  foot, by vehicle,  and  by  aerial
survey, show no evidence of secret entrances to any facility or a
base as large as the one described in the source information.

 (PHX-4E)  An Electro-Magnetic "spectrum sweep" of the  Archuleta
Mesa  and the Town of Dulce, revealed no unusual  electromagnetic
disturbances.  The  entire area was surveyed by a  "Total  Field"
Magnetometer. No unusual magnetic disturbances were recorded.

 (PHX-4F) There are no records of any "Dams" on the Navajo  River
anywhere near the Dulce area or north of the Archuleta Mesa.  The
"Dam" described in the source information does not exist.

 (PHX-4G) An "on-foot" survey of the Navajo River did not  reveal
the existence of any "discharge outlets" downstream. There is  no
evidence  of any caves. The Indians interviewed did not  know  of
any   caves,  along  the  river,  as  described  in  the   source
information.

<Concluded in next message..>

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 03:21:10 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Michael Corbin
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:20

<<<<..Continued from previous message>>>>


 (PHX-4H)  There  is no "water intake" or "dam" upstream  on  the
Navajo  River.  The  lack  of  any  "dams"  can  be  verified  by
consulting any topographical or aeronautical charts of the  area.
Re-routing the Navajo River, by damming it, to Chama, New Mexico,
as described by Bennewitz, would be a miraculous feat. Chama, New
Mexico  is  at  an elevation of 8,025 feet above  sea  level,  as
indicated  by Aeronautical Chart # 45 dated July 25,  1991.  Also
noted,  on  this same chart, is the elevation of Dulce  as  6,800
feet above sea level. It would be a natural impossibility to have
the  water of the Navajo River re-routed to Chama, as  the  water
would  have  flow  up-hill  over  the  Continental  Divide   that
separates  the  two towns. The mountainous  terrain  ranges  from
9,025 to 9,916 feet above sea level with no obvious gravitational
advantages  between the two towns. Such an effort  would  require
the  installation  on a monster pipeline and pumping  station  to
accomplish  this.  No such pipeline or pumping station  has  ever
been built in this area.

 * * * 5) Source Information Excerpt Thisisit.Txt Wm. C. Cooper

 ...The  alien  underground  base is located  beneath  an  indian
reservation near the small town of Dulce, New Mexico...

 * * *

Findings:

 All of the previous "Findings" apply to this source information.

 * * *

CONCLUSIONS:

 Information  from  many sources regarding the  existence  of  an
alleged U.S.\Alien Base at Dulce, New Mexico, does not agree with
the  facts  obtained  by the investigation  carried  out  by  The
Phoenix Project. It would appear that the information  describing
this   alleged  U.S./Alien  Base  and  the  numerous   facilities
associated  with  it,  is entirely  false.  This  would  indicate
deliberate  disinformation supplied to UFO investigators and  all
those   interested   in  UFO  research.  It   seems   that   this
disinformation  is  designed to mis-lead and  mis-direct  serious
researchers away from the truth. It seems incredible that serious
UFO  researchers and the UFO Movement, in general,  could  accept
the  information  regarding a large U.S.\Alien Base  near  Dulce,
without making a detailed and complete investigation.
   The facts revealed by the Phoenix Project investigation do not
support the presence of a joint U.S.\Alien base near Dulce -- and
it is not in, around, or under the Archuleta Mesa. Perhaps  there
is  a  such  a  base  somewhere  else  on  the  Jicarilla  Indian
Reservation,  but  if  that is true, it seems  strange  that  the
Apaches,  the  local residents and the proper  local  authorities
have  no  knowledge  of its presence or that  such  a  base  ever
existed.

 From  a  practical  stand-point,  a base as  large  as  the  one
described  in  the information supplied by  the  sources  quoted,
along  with  a staff of 2000 aliens and their  human  co-workers,
would need to meet certain logistical requirements. Any  sizeable
joint  U.S.\Alien base, located anywhere, would need to meet  the
same requirements.

 1. The presence of a large, highly technical, human work-force.

 2.  Support  facilities  for  such  a  human  work-force,  i.e.,
housing, medical, recreational, service and shopping, and service
support facilities.

 3. There would obviously be work-shifts with workers coming  and
going  at certain hours. None of this activity could  be  totally
concealed.  This activity would be recognized by other people  in
the area.

 4.  Such  a base would require operating  supplies  which  would
require  incoming  freight shipments.  Delivering  such  supplies
would require delivery trucks or some form of air transport. Such
activity,  on a regular basis, would not go un-noticed  by  local
residents.

 5.  If such a base existed, above ground or  underground,  there
would need to be security guards, fenced or controlled areas  and
regular   perimeter  patrols.  A  relationship  with  local   law
enforcement  officials  would be required. The presence  of  such
security forces and patrols would not go un-noticed by  residents
in the area.

 6.  Local authorities, i.e., city, county, and law  enforcement,
would know if such a base or facility existed in their area.

 Please  note.  None  of the foregoing criteria  exist,  or  have
existed,  in  or  around the Town of Dulce  or  anywhere  on  the
Jicarilla  Apache  Indian Reservation. Nor do they exist  in  any
other  "remote  areas" where there are suspected  U.S.  or  joint
U.S\Alien  bases.  Thus, one can only conclude  that  such  bases
cannot remain "hidden" in remote areas. Someone will always  know
or  remember  that something strange is going-on  in  any  remote
area.

 Where then, should one look for such bases? The answer should be
obvious.   Such  bases  must  meet  the   requirements   outlined
previously.  They are located in known areas which meet  all  the
logistical  requirements. There are any number of  government  or
military  installations  in  New Mexico  that  easily  meet  such
requirements. However, gaining entry to such facilities, to prove
that such a base exists, would prove difficult if not  impossible
to  any  civilian  researcher  without  the  proper  credentials,
security clearances and a "need-to-know."

 The following pages contain the maps, photographs and scientific
exhibits associated with this Report.


Signed,


The Phoenix Project

END OF FILE
PARANET FILENAME: DULCEDOC.TXT

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Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 - Suspected Alien Base Discovery
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:08 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:08

Below is a seven part message concerning an alleged discovery of an alien base
in Northern California.  This information has not been verified!  ParaNet is
providing it for information only and is not to be construed as an endorsement
of the material or the Phoenix Project.  Anyone with further information is
encouraged to contact ParaNet at 303-431-8796, or via electronic mail at the
following addresses:

Internet - [e-mail]
Fidonet  - 1:104/422

THE K-2 REPORT: The Discovery of a Secret Alien Base In  Northern
California. Report Number 920627. May 27, 1992.

The "Phoenix Project Reports" Are Published By ADVENT  PUBLISHING
COMPANY P.O. Box 3748 Carson City, NV 89702

Entire Contents Copyright (c) 1992 by The Phoenix Project

Permission  to quote is granted provided the Phoenix  Project  is
acknowledged  as  the source and the Report Title  and  Date  are
included in any quotes.

Reproduction  of any Phoenix Project Report or Logo, in any  form
or by any means, is not permissible without written authorization
from the publisher

WHAT IS THE PHOENIX PROJECT?

 The   Phoenix   Project  is  a   private,   civilian,   research
organization   formed  in  1952  to  investigate  and   correlate
information  concerning  Unidentified Flying Objects  (UFOs)  and
Extra-Terrestrial (ET) activities. It has no affiliation with the
United  States Government or any of its agencies. Because of  the
nature of its work the Phoenix Project does not seek publicity.

 Staff  members are former military personnel who have  all  been
associated  with intelligence activities, and have  knowledge  of
covert government operations concerning UFO's. Their knowledge of
the  specialized  field of  "intelligence  correlation,"  provide
unique insights into various subject matter.

 From  time-to-time  and  in the  public  interest,  the  Phoenix
Project will publish research reports regarding certain subjects.
A   list  of  reports  is  available  from  our  publisher.   All
correspondence should be addressed to:

The  Phoenix Project C/O Advent Publishing Company P.O. Box  3748
Carson City, NV 89702

IMPORTANT NOTE

The  name  "Phoenix"  is used by many  different  publishers  and
organizations  as  a  part  of the name  used  in  their  various
publications.

To  avoid any false association with or confusion that  might  be
caused  by  a  similar name, all  publications  of  the  "Phoenix
Project"  bear the Project's Logo (a registered  trade-mark)  and
are  published  exclusively  by Advent  Publishing  Company.  The
"Phoenix  Project" is not affiliated with any other  publication,
publisher, organization or group.

In particular, there is no affiliation with a publisher known  as
America West, of Carson City, Nevada, any of its publications, or
the individuals known as George and Desiree Green, of  Tehachapi,
California.

INTRODUCTION TO THE K-2 REPORT

SPECIAL NOTE:

 June 27, 1992

 The  original  "K-2  Special Report," dated July  28,  1989  and
included  in  this document, was  classified  "confidential"  for
circulation within the Phoenix Project only. It was not  released
for public distribution. There are compelling reasons for  making
it public at this time, and to update this information. Note  the
following:

 1)  In  the  last decade, there has been  a  growing  number  of
reports  of  hostile activity by alien beings,  directed  against
humanity.

 2)  Various  Departments  and  Agencies  of  the  United  States
Government have increased their activity on two different levels.

 One:  They  have  stepped-up  the level  of  their  covert  dis-
information  campaign  --  a campaign  aimed  at  disrupting  the
civilian  UFO  movement.  This  is  evidenced  by  an  increasing
quantity    of   dis-information   supplied    to    individuals,
organizations  and the public. It is an onoing program to  create
wide-spread  confusion throughout the UFO movement,  to  splinter
organizations,  and to discredit any investigators who  get  near
the  truth.  Many researchers are  spinning-their-wheels  chasing
down, deliberately planted, false leads. The tactics employed are
aimed  at diverting attention away from critical areas where  the
truth would be revealed.

 Trained operatives have infiltrated the UFO movement, poising as
sincere and trusted investigators while others adopt the roles of
professional skeptics and debunkers. By covering and  controlling
both sides-of-theence, they insure that the truth remains hidden.

 Two: This duplicity extends to their relations with the  aliens.
On  one  hand  they  continue the charade  of  working  with  and
assisting the aliens -- to obtain the advanced alien  technology,
while  they  secretly develop operations and weapons  systems  to
counter the threat the aliens represent.

<Continued in next message..>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 Report - Part 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:09 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:08

<..Continued from previous message>


 The aliens have indulged in the same duplicity. Saying one thing
to   the  super-powers,  to  create  an  appetite  for   superior
technology,  while  carrying  out  their  own  covert  activities
against humanity. They have created wellidden bases of their own.
Bases that allow them to continue their covert operations without
government interference or scrutiny. Bases unknown to the various
world governments.

 It  would  be  untrue to say that the  U.S.  Government  doesn't
suspect  the existence of hidden alien bases. However,  to  date,
they have had shown little success in locating them.

 It  is  not the intention or purpose of the Phoenix  Project  to
judge   the  government's  actions  or  the  actions   of   those
responsible and involved in the UFO coverup activity. Our efforts
are  not part of a vindictive crusade against the government.  In
our  opinion,  the  public  has a right to  know  the  facts  and
information revealed by our investigations. If this proves to  be
an  embarrassment  to  those  responsible  for  concealing   such
information, they have only themselves to blame.

 Our  efforts  may  help  wiser  heads  in  the  government   and
elsewhere,  to realize that the aliens have hidden objectives  of
their own. Objectives they have not made known to the  government
and  humanity.  Wiser  heads may also  realize  that  Washington,
Langley  and Fort Meade do not have exclusive possession of  that
called  "intelligence"  or intelligence data. Perhaps  they  will
finally recognize that "others" are able to obtain, correlate and
evaluate  important information on their own. A  rational  person
might  realize  the  value and importance  of  cooperation  with,
rather  than  antagonism  against, others  who  possess  valuable
information.

 The  objective  of  the Phoenix Project in  making  this  report
public is to accomplish the following:

 1) To reveal to the U.S. Government, civilian UFO  investigators
and  the  public, the existence and location of  a  hidden  alien
base.  It will also become known that the aliens have  used,  and
are  continuing  to  use, without  their  knowledge  or  consent,
personnel of the U.S. Forest Service to help conceal the presence
of this base. Details concerning this are included in the updated
information supplement in the Exhibit Section of this report.

 2) Revealing the location of this base will render it useless to
the  aliens.  This  will severely impact  part  of  their  covert
activity against humanity.

 3) To reveal one aspect of the alien threat to the public.

HOW THE INVESTIGATION BEGAN AND THE ALIEN BASE WAS DISCOVERED

 The  Phoenix  Project investigation into this  matter  began  in
early  June  of  1989. Our Staff Member # 2,  then,  overheard  a
strange short-wave radio transmission that aroused his  interest.
Every  night,  for  two weeks, he  monitored  this  unique  radio
transmission.  Then, using radio direction-finding equipment,  he
was  able  to  locate the source of the  transmission.  By  using
triangulation  techniques he found the signal was coming from  an
area some forty miles northeast of his location.

 On  June 10, 1989, he recorded the strange  radio  transmission.
The  broadcast  signal lasted nearly an hour. The  recording  was
sent  to  the Project's Headquarters for  further  analysis.  Our
analysis  of the recording caused the Project to launch  a  major
investigation  into  this matter. As a side  project,  our  Staff
decided  to  "test"  the current  degree  of  government  secrecy
regarding UFO research. We created a test.

THE TEST

 Our  staff  contacted Dr. Peter Sturrock  at  Stanford  Research
Institute  in Palo Alto, California. Dr. Sturrock enjoys a  quiet
reputation of being a "concerned" and reliable UFO Researcher. We
requested  that  he conduct a further study and analysis  of  the
recording. Dr. Sturrock was very interested and cooperative -- at
first.  However,  very quickly, his attitude  changed.  Within  a
week, and acting very reserved and guarded, he phoned us  stating
he couldn't have anything further to do with this matter and that
Stanford  Research  could not analyze the recording.  No  further
explanation  was offered. He suggested we take the  recording  to
Dr. James Harder at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View,
California. We thanked Dr. Sturrock for his initial interest  and
expressed  our  regrets that he was unable to pursue  the  matter
further.  In the next day's mail, we received the  recording  and
our analysis notes from Dr. Sturrock.

 A  courier  delivered  the recording to NASA's  Dr.  Harder,  in
person, the following day. A week later we called to ask how  the
analysis  was progressing. Dr. Harder was not available  when  we
phoned,  but his secretary could not recall having  received  any
recording  from us. Therefore, there was nothing to  analyze  and
they  were  unable  to  assist  us  further.  The  tone  of   the
conversation was abrupt and had the ring of an obvious dismissal.

 Fortunately,  the  "lost"  recording  was a  copy  and  not  the
original.  It  was becoming very obvious that  Dr.  Sturrock  and
Stanford  Research, and that Dr. Harder and NASA, were not  going
to  reveal what their analysis of the recording revealed.  Again,
the  official  research community had failed our "test."  It  was
time to move on.

<Continued in next message..>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 Report - Part 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:10 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:09

<<..Continued from previous message>>


 Meanwhile,  the  Project's  Staff  decided  to  investigate  the
location   thought  to  be  the  source  of  the  strange   radio
transmission.

 On  June  15,  1989,  a  Phoenix  Project  Survey  Team  made  a
preliminary  investigation to locate the site and origin  of  the
mysterious  radio  transmission.  The  site  was  located  and  a
preliminary investigation was completed.

 A  second  site  survey  and  more  detailed  investigation  was
conducted  on  June 28, 1989. The results of this  second  survey
prompted   the  need  for  an  in-depth  scientific  survey   and
investigation of the site.

 On July 19, 1989, the third survey was launched. A well-equipped
science  and  investigative team arrived at the K-2  Site  for  a
three-day effort. For security reasons, at the time, the  Phoenix
Project  assigned  the code name "K-2" to the site area  and  the
investigative  effort. The results of all three site surveys  and
the  results  of the investigation, were compiled  the  following
week.   The  following  report  reveals  the  details   of   that
investigation.

Date of original report: July 28, 1989

 Revised for updated information: June 22, 1992

K-2 -- A SPECIAL REPORT

A SUMMARY OF FINDINGS

GENERAL DESCRIPTION

 K-2 is the Phoenix Project code name for a specific geographical
site   in  Northern  California.  It  has  been  determined,   by
investigation,  that  this site is the location of  a  previously
unknown  and undiscovered extra-terrestrial (alien)  installation
and base of operations.

 To  date,  the  U.S. Government  and  its  various  intelligence
agencies  has  given  no indication that they are  aware  of  the
existence  of  the  K-2 Alien Base or its location.  It  is  also
unknown  to  the general public and to leading  UFO  researchers.
This report is the first time its existence has been revealed.

 Alien spacecraft seen arriving and departing from this base, and
the  small, grey, alien creatures seen at this location, lead  to
the  inescapable conclusion that this base was built by,  and  is
operated  by, an alien race from the star system  Zeta  Reticuli.
This race, known in covert government and select public  circles,
and to UFO researchers, has been named the Greys.

CONCEALMENT FEATURES

 The site of this secret alien base is within the Plumas National
Forest. The base is well-concealed and hidden underground, inside
a  "land-mark" mountain -ilot Peak, in northern California.  This
site  is  located  in Plumas County, on  a  remote  and  isolated
stretch of county road between the towns of La Porte and  Quincy.
See Exhibit 1.

 The  site  is isolated and cut-off from general  access,  except
from the air or the use of snowmobiles, or ski's, 6 months of the
year  because  of heavy snow conditions. A well  constructed  and
permanent  "fire"  lookout tower on top of Pilot Peak  (K-2)  was
suddenly abandoned several years ago. Discussions with local U.S.
Forest Rangers, indicate there are no intentions of ever  manning
or  re-activating  the fire lookout station.  Budgetary  problems
were  not a factor. The explanation given, was that  the  lookout
was  obsolete.  Fire  spotting,  these  days,  according  to  the
rangers, is better accomplished by patrolling aircraft.

 This explanation, (in 1989) seems suspect and insubstantial,  at
best.  Evidence to support these claims are provided by the  fact
that   other  fire  lookout  stations,  in  nearby   areas,   are
operational  and manned throughout the peak summer  fire  season.
Why is the K-2 fire lookout an exception?

 An  outstanding "air approach corridor," provides  incoming  and
outgoing alien spacecraft with exceptional concealment. The  "air
corridor"  leading to and from this hidden base is, somehow,  not
covered  by  either  military or civilian radar  or  air  traffic
control.  This has been verified by examination  of  aeronautical
charts  of  the area. Terrain features, also,  provide  excellent
concealment from visual observation. See Exhibit 2.

TERRAIN FEATURES OF THE SITE:

 The main area of the Alien base is a "U" shaped bowl cradled  at
the northern end and at the foot of Pilot Peak and its associated
mountain  ridges. The site is protected on three sides by 400  to
600  foot mountain ridges. Two, level terrain, landing zones  200
to 300 feet in diameter are present. Well concealed and  expertly
camouflaged entrances to the Alien base are located near each  of
the landing zones. See Exhibit 3.

 High  mountains and deep valleys, leading to and from  the  open
mouth  of  the "U" shaped site, provides a 20 mile  approach  and
departure corridor that is secure from ground-based radar,  civil
or  military.  The deep valley and canyons  also  prevent  visual
observation  of  low-flying spacecraft. Visual  observation  from
high-flying  military or civilian jet traffic is not  likely,  as
the site is not on or near an established air traffic route.  See
Exhibit 17.

<Continued in next message..>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 Report - Part 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:10

<<<..Continued from previous message>>>


LANDING SITE EVIDENCE

 There  are  some physical indications present  at  both  landing
sites,  Landing Zone 1 and 2 (indentations in the  ground,  large
circular  areas of flattened native grass, and small  amounts  of
residual radio-active radiation). Most striking, however, is  the
fact  that  there  is  an unusual absence  of  animal  or  rodent
presence.  There are no animals; animal tracks, rodents,  snakes,
ground  squirrels or chipmunks present in or around  the  landing
sites.  However, these creatures are present everywhere  else  in
the  area.  Birds, also present elsewhere, seem to  avoid  flying
over  or  through the landing areas.  Insect  life,  particularly
flying  insects -- deer flies, common flies and  mosquitoes,  are
present  everywhere. Other researchers have established the  fact
that  the lack of animal or rodent presence in UFO landing  areas
is significant.

AREA NEAR CONCEALED BASE

 To  the casual observer visiting the K-2 site, everything  would
appear quite normal. The area seems peaceful and serene. However,
in  the  general  area  of  the  concealed  Alien  base,  to   an
experienced observer, it suggests and entirely different picture.
The  area is too tranquil and perfect, both in appearance and  in
the  general atmosphere of the place. The term "picture  perfect"
is  appropriate.  This  setting  is  completely  unrealistic  and
paradoxical when compared with other areas a mere half-mile away.

SURVEY PARTY OBSERVATIONS

 On  three  occasions  (in 1989)  trained  investigators  of  the
Phoenix Project have visited and investigated the K-2 site.  They
have   all  experienced  and  observed  unusual   phenomena   and
conditions in the area.

 1)  An uncanny stillness (the absence of normal  sounds)  during
the day. This was even more evident during the hours of darkness.
No  animal sounds. No owls hooting. No birds chirping.  No  cries
from coyotes. The absence of these normal sounds in the area  was
unsettling.  This phenomenon has been observed on every visit  to
this site.

 2) All the investigators experienced independent and  unprompted
feelings   of  being  observed  by  unseen  watchers.  This   was
particularly evident on the first visit to the site. Each  member
of  the survey party, independently, and with no solicitation  or
prompting from each other, reported, afterwards, strong  feelings
of being watched and frequently they turned around to look behind
them.  However, no unseen watchers were discovered. This  left  a
strong impression on the survey party.

 3) On the first survey there were observations of unusual  cloud
behavior. Clouds that formed out of nowhere. Clouds that appeared
and disappeared with sudden quickness. Thick, angry looking, grey
clouds  that billowed up in ominous manner, with a "boiling"  and
rolling  end-over-end motion, that quickly enveloped  the  entire
site  area. Survey party members wondered if the atmosphere  was,
somehow,  being controlled. All of this activity was confined  to
the  K-2 site area. A half-mile away, in any direction,  the  sky
was clear.

 4)  Observations  on the first and second visits  to  the  site,
revealed that an earthen dike (erected to maintain a 6 foot water
level  in a large pond near the concealed secret base)  had  very
recently,  been  deliberately  breached over a  ten  foot  width,
dropping  the pond's water level to a 6 inch depth. Shovel  marks
were  evident  in the breach area. The lack of  erosion,  on  the
sides of the breached area, indicated its recent nature.

 However,  on  the  third visit this  breach  had  been  expertly
repaired.  There were heavy equipment tracks (a  bulldozer's)  in
and  around the dike. Earth, dug from a nearby hill, was used  to
repair  the  dike. Forest Rangers, who patrol  the  area  several
times  each  day, when questioned about this, were at a  loss  to
explain  the  repairs.  No one using  heavy  equipment  had  been
observed  in the area. According to the Rangers, the pond is  not
used  for any known purpose -- yet it's there.  Someone  recently
breached it to lower the water level. Then, someone, unknown  and
unobserved, repaired it. See Exhibit 15.

 Why  the pond with no known purpose or function? Why breach  it?
Why  repair  it?  Why wasn't the use of heavy  equipment  or  the
repairs,  noticed by the patrolling Rangers? It should be  stated
that  the Rangers are very observant and notice everything  going
on  in  their area, as our questions revealed. Why is  K-2,  this
Alien base, seemingly, exempt?

 5) The county road between the towns of La Porte and Quincy is a
rough, poorly maintained, dirt road for some 30 miles. Rough dirt
roads  are  prevalent  throughout  the  area  for  miles  in  all
directions. There are no towns, settlements, fishing areas,  camp
grounds,  or anything else of significance, anywhere in the  area
near Pilot Peak (K-2). This site is out in the middle of nowhere.
Yet  --  the  county  road for 2-1/2 miles  either  side  of  the
entrance  to the K-2 site, is a modern, well  maintained,  black-
topped,  2 lane highway. Before and after this 5 mile stretch  of
modern  road, it is again a dirt road. Why? No one questioned  by
our  investigators had any explanation. And, more  curiously,  no
one seemed the least bit curious about it. Why? Refer to Exhibits
1 and 3.

<Continued in next message..>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 Report - Part 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:11

<<<<..Continued from previous message>>>>


 6) There is a rough, hard-packed, dirt road leading to K-2  from
the  town  of  La Porte. It is a narrow 2 lane road.  It  is  not
frequently  traveled.  On  the  third  visit  to  the  K-2  site,
extraordinary logging activity, by "two" major logging companies,
were  evident.  Only the trees within 20 feet on either  side  of
this  dirt  road  are  being cut and  hauled  to  sawmills.  When
questioned,  the  loggers  were  uncommunicative  regarding  this
activity.  However,  there is every reason to believe,  from  the
nature  of this activity, that this road is going to  be  widened
and improved. Possibly, even black-topped.

 One must remember that this road is an obscure county road  that
is infrequently used. It provides a secondary connection  between
the  two towns of La Porte and Quincy, some thirty  miles  apart.
Why the activity to widen and improve it? Why improve a road that
is hardly used by the general public?

 It must be remembered that all these secondary county roads  are
totally  impassible, because of heavy snow, for 6 months  of  the
year. No efforts are made during the winter to keep them open and
clear.  In fact, just outside of La Porte there is a heavy  metal
gate  that  is used to block the road during the  winter  months.
Why, then, all this activity? What purpose is being served?

METHODS USED TO DETERMINE THE PRESENCE, LOCATION AND SIZE OF  THE
ALIEN BASE

 Since the only way to conceal a large installation is to bury it
underground,  or  in the depths of an ocean, out of  sight,  only
certain types of sophisticated scientific instruments can  reveal
the underground presence of such an installation. Foremost  among
these  instruments,  is that known as a  portable  "total  field"
magnetometer.  This  instrument is widely  used  by  professional
geologists  to  detect  the  presence  of  valuable   underground
minerals,   oil,  and  water  deposits.  It  is  also   used   by
sophisticated  archaeologists  to detect the remains  of  ancient
buried   cities,  caverns  and  other  valuable  sites  of   past
civilizations.

 A  magnetometer is a precision instrument that  measures  minute
changes  or  deviations in the Earth's magnetic  field  within  a
given  area.  All  geological  features:  mountains,  lava  beds,
rivers, streams and lakes, plains, meadows and plateaus, and even
grains of sand, eventually, over thousands of years, align  their
molecular magnetic structure with the prevailing direction of the
Earth's magnetic field. Earthquakes, volcanoes and geological up-
thrusts,  and their resultant forces, in creating all  geological
formations, cause deviations in an area's basic magnetic pattern.
Underground  geological features such as: upthrust  dikes,  sheer
planes,  faults, mineral deposits, caverns, caves, tombs,  rivers
and lakes, etc., and other anomalies, leave their  characteristic
and recognizable magnetic signatures.

 In  a  like manner, any underground  excavations,  tunneling  or
shafts, create a deviation from the normal patterns prevalent  in
a given area. Such underground construction activity disturbs the
local  magnetic field in the area. This disturbance is caused  by
the material excavated or otherwise moved. The magnetometer  can,
by noting the strength of such deviations and disturbances,  then
determine  the  location, shape, size and depth  of  such  buried
features and anomalies.

 Sophisticated computer programs can then analyze the information
reported by this instrument and create statistical data,  charts,
plots and maps, which portray the underground features of an area
in  amazing detail. The magnetometer, in a sense, is  similar  to
having a form of powerful x-ray vision that is capable of looking
deep within the earth.

 For three days starting on July 19, 1989, a portable total-field
magnetometer was used by the Phoenix Project's scientific  survey
team to conduct a magnetic mapping of highly suspect areas of the
K-2 site.

 The  presence of our survey teams aroused intense  curiosity  on
the part of the U.S. Forest Service and their Rangers. The  first
day,  several  different Rangers questioned  us  intensely.  They
asked us who we were, what we were doing, how long we would be in
the  area,  where we came from, etc. We  had  prepared  plausible
answers  to  such questions in advance of being  questioned.  Our
answers  seemed to satisfy their initial curiosity. However,  the
second  and  third day of our presence on the site,  brought  the
Rangers  out  in  force.  Hardly an  hour  would  pass  before  a
different  Ranger or pair of Rangers would appear and  start  the
questions  all  over again. They seemed determined  to  find  out
exactly  who we were, why we were there, what we were doing,  and
why we were doing it, etc. Some of the Rangers stayed a while and
became interested in the scientific equipment and its  operation.
To  satisfy  them, we let them assist us in taking  some  of  the
magnetometer  readings. But, continuously, they tried to pump  us
for  additional  information.  Each time we gave  them  the  same
answers and eventually they would leave. The on-going visits  and
questions eventually became a game that was amusing. However,  we
couldn't help but wonder what was driving their curiosity and why
they continued the constant barrage of questions. See Exhibit 21.

<Continued in next message..>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:12

<<<<<<..Continued from previous message>>>>>>


* * *

Report  # 3 By Staff # 2: Date: August 11, 1989, Time:  1500  PDT
Location: K-2

 Following the events of the night before, I made a quick trip to
check out the K-2 area.

 Observation:  There  was  a "burned" or  scorched  area  on  the
ground,  30  feet  in  diameter, at the  LZ-1  (landing  zone  1)
apparently, where an object had landed. In the rush to get there,
I  forgot  to take my camera. No pictures  were  obtained.  After
further  checking out the area, I left. I decided to  return  the
next day with a camera to get pictures of the burn marks.

* * *

Report  # 4 By Staff # 2: Date: August 12, 1989, Time:  1300  PDT
Location: K-2

 Observation:  Another  quick trip to K-2 -- this time  with  the
camera.

 "This  second trip -- brought a surprise. The burned round  mark
on  the  ground  wasn't there (the one I  had  observed  the  day
before.  The 30 foot diameter burned area). It looks like  "they"
(the  Greys)  had  removed everything that would  show  they  had
landed  there. I did some digging, but there was nothing to  show
for  it. They had replaced the ground (the burned area) with  new
soil, including the dead grass that covers the ground. They  seem
to know we are on to them, and are making it difficult for us  to
prove anything. From now on, the camera goes with me everywhere."
See Exhibits 19 and 20.

Memo August 12, 1989 From Staff # 1 To: Staff # 2

 Our contacts in the Air Force verify that on the night of August
10, 1989, at the time indicated in Report # 1 of that date,  that
eight  F-4's,  scrambled  from Beale AFB, CA. They  had  a  brief
radar-lock,  on  a "bogie" in the area described.  However,  they
lost the target, due to ground clutter when it suddenly descended
into  the mountainous terrain. They returned to the base  when  a
further sweep of the area proved fruitless.

 You're right, the AF had a blip on their radar, but lost it when
the ship dropped into that 20-mile approach corridor between  the
valleys and the radar dead zone.

* * *

Comments by Staff # 1 Date: 8/15/89, Time: 1300 PDT

 The events taking place, as described in the preceding  reports,
indicate  on-going activity at the K-2 site. This activity,  adds
weight  to  the conclusions and evidence gathered by  our  Survey
Team.  Those findings were included in the "K-2, Special  Report"
Dated  7/28/89. These recent events taking place at K-2  validate
our initial findings.

* * *

Comments by Staff # 1 Date: 8/29/89

 Observations of night-time activity at K-2, over the past month,
indicate  that  alien crafts are making supply runs at  two  week
intervals.  All of our attempts, on site, to photograph or  video
tape  their  arrival, unloading and departures have  failed.  The
aliens seem to detect our presence even though we have made every
effort to remain concealed. On two occasions, from our  concealed
location,  we have observed one of their craft making  a  landing
approach. The craft suddenly veers off, about two miles from  the
base,  and  quickly  leaves  the area.  For  both  practical  and
economic  reasons  we cannot continue this surveillance.  In  our
opinion,  we  have validated the existence of the  base  and  the
alien activity associated with this site.

* * * ADDENDUM:

6/23/92 ADDITIONAL CONCLUSION

 Previously, we mentioned the extreme curiosity exhibited by U.S.
Forest Rangers, and their barrage of questions while we conducted
the  scientific  survey of K-2 in July of 1989.  The  reason  for
their  conduct and questions became known in August of  1989  and
during  the course of subsequent investigations at K-2. Refer  to
Exhibit 21.

 As a result of the public disclosure of the Alien Base  revealed
in  this report, it will prove most interesting to  observe  what
action  is taken by any unit of the U.S. Government to deal  with
this  situation. It is doubtful they will allow an Alien Base  to
operate right under their noses.

 This  would  be an excellent occasion for the public,  in  large
numbers,  to  camp  out at the K-2 site,  use  their  home  video
cameras  to  record  what activity occurs and  whether  they  are
ordered to leave the area.

 Also, without a doubt, it is not difficult to predict a scenario
in  which well-paid and learned government experts will  proclaim
that no alien base exists at K-2. In the interim, nobody would be
surprised,  would they (??), if the area was suddenly fenced  off
by a double perimeter chain-link fence and patrolled by  security
guards.  The  public may even be denied any access to  the  area.
Now, what would that suggest to you?

 It's  something of a Catch-22 situation for the government.  Any
action  taken  to suppress the alien base will  be  revealed  and
noticed by the public, and any inction, hoping people will forget
it,  allows the aliens to continue their operations. It's  a  bad
situation  for the aliens, as well. All the publicity and  people
hanging  around the area will disrupt their activities.  Somehow,
the  term  "poetic  justice" seems  correct  in  this  situation.
Perhaps you'll agree.

K-2 DATA EXHIBIT PACKAGE

LIST OF EXHIBITS

 Exhibit 1: Quincy - La Porte Area Map.

 Exhibit  2:  Aeronautical Chart of K-2 Area  detailing  Military
Operation  Areas (MOA's) Boundaries, Radar coverage and  approach
corridors.

 Exhibit 3: Expanded Topographic Map of K-2 Site.

 Exhibit 4: Text - Detailed Magnetometer Data of K-2, Section 3.

 Exhibit  5:  K2Q3S3  (Quad 3, Section 3)  Magnetic  Field  Stats
indicating  section line numbers, line stations and  magnetometer
readings.

 Exhibits  6 A,B,C,D: K2Q3S3 Top View. Detailed Magnetic  Profile
Charts of Section 3 survey lines.

 Exhibit  7:  K2Q3S3  High-Resolution  Magnetic  Contour  Map  of
Section 3, Quad 3, indicating major underground features.

 Exhibit  7A: Text - Describing the hidden underground  parts  of
the  Alien  base,  in  the area surveyed,  and  revealed  by  the
Magnetometer Data.

 Exhibit 8: Text - K2SCARP Magnetic Data (Section 3) Re-Survey of
lines 30, 40, and 50, for expanded details of Item A, line 40.

 Exhibit  9: K2SCARP Top View, Magnetic Profile of Lines  30,  40
and 50.

 Exhibit  10:  K2SCARP  Magnetic  Contour  Map  showing  expanded
features of Item A on Lines 30, 40, and 50.

 Exhibit  11:  Photo - of a section of the  modern  blackop  road
fronting the entrance to the K-2 Site.

 Exhibit  12:  Photo  - K-2 Site entrance  road  and  portion  of
Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1).

 Exhibit 13: Photo - LZ-1 and the Alien Base.

 Exhibit 14: Photo - South end of Alien Base and LZ-2.

 Exhibit 15: Photo - The mysterious Dike and Pond.

 Exhibit  16: Photo - The Rock Scarp detailed on Line 40  of  the
magnetometer data.

 Exhibit 17: Photo - Medium view of the overall K-2 Site, landing
areas and the Alien base.

 Exhibit 18: Photo - Long View of K-2 showing the hidden approach
corridors to the site.

 Exhibit 19: Photo - Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1).

 Exhibit 20: Photo - Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1) showing landing marks.

 Exhibit 21: Text - Describing latest finding regarding K-2.

 All  of the exhibits listed in this report are contained in  the
printed  K-2  Report available from the  publisher.  All  printed
versions  of  the  Phoenix Project Special  Reports  contain  the
exhibits  referenced in the reports text. Send a  self-addressed,
stamped  envelope  to Advent Publishing Company, P.O.  Box  3748,
Carson City, Nevada 89702, for a list of Phoenix Project  Special
Reports.

SPECIAL NOTE:

 Very  recently,  the  Phoenix Project  conducted  an  undercover
investigation of the U.S. Forest Service Headquarters at  Quincy,
California.   That  investigation  has  revealed  startling   new
information. A Special "K-2 Supplemental Report," will be  issued
in  the  near  future. It will reveal this  new  information  and
contain exhibits of the evidence obtained.

END OF FILE
PARANET FILENAME:  K2RPT.REP

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 Report - Part 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 05:13:13 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:11

<<<<<..Continued from previous message>>>>>


 This  magnetic survey revealed the presence of a large  metallic
or metal constructed chamber of enormous size, thought to be  the
main alien installation or base, and other metal-lined  chambers.
In  addition,  various metalined tunnels and fused  natural  rock
passages   and   tunnels,  connecting  various   areas   of   the
installation, and providing means to enter and exit the base were
detected.

 Subsequent  computer analysis, of the data obtained,  created  a
highly-detailed magnetic contour map of part of this installation
(the  bulk  of  the  main installation lies  under  an  area  not
surveyed  on this occasion, but "linking" evidence indicates  its
direction and location) along with various tunnels, passages  and
entrances.  Exhibits  4,  5,  6, 7, 8, 9,  and  10  include  this
scientific information.

CONCLUSION (July 1989)

 It  is  the  opinion of the members  of  the  Phoenix  Project's
investigators  and  scientific  survey  teams,  based  on   their
personal  on-site  observations and in-depth study of  the  Pilot
Peak  (K-2)  site,  the  facts  revealed,  interviews  with  USFS
Rangers,  and  scientific analysis, that a  hidden,  underground,
major operational base of alien beings has been discovered.  This
investigation  and  survey were conducted by  highly-trained  and
credible  individuals  who  uncovered  --  incredible  facts.   A
complete  magnetic  survey of adjacent areas,  several  acres  in
extent, would reveal the true dimensions of this installation and
additional  valuable details, and is to be recommended.  However,
the  financial  cost of such an extensive survey  is  beyond  the
resources available to this group of investigators.

INFORMATION UPDATE

Date:  August 16, 1989 From: Staff # 1 Subject: Activity  Reports
concerning K-2

Comment from Staff # 1: Date: August 10, 1989, Time: 2215 PDT.

 At  2215  PDT, I received a phone call from Staff #  2  who  was
stationed forty miles southwest of K-2. In an excited manner,  he
described sighting a large glowing object that had, only  minutes
before, passed very near his observation point. He supplied a few
details. Knowing, from experience that the Phoenix Project phones
are being monitored by various government intelligence  agencies,
I  cut the conversation short and requested that  he  investigate
the  K-2  Site the next day and send me the complete  details  by
courier.  I received the following information from Staff # 2  on
August 14, 1989.

* * *

Report # 1: By Staff # 2: Date: August 10, 1989, Time: 2212  PDT.
Location: Approximately 40 miles southwest of K-2.

 A brightly glowing object was observed from my location. It  was
approximately 30-40 feet in diameter, moving slowly from south to
north at 500 feet above the tree-tops.

 When  first sighted, the object was approaching from  the  South
and slowing down. When opposite my observation point, it  stopped
in  mid-air  and hovered. The object was glowing  with  a  bright
white  light, as it approached. When it stopped and hovered,  the
color changed to a bright blue light.

 It  remained  stopped  for approximately  15  seconds,  then  it
changed back to a bright white color, as it started moving slowly
(10-15 mph) toward the North in the direction of K-2.

 Observations:  The object lit up the area, quite well,  when  it
was  glowing with the white light. No sound was produced  by  the
object.  Normal  animal  and  insect sounds,  in  my  area,  were
silenced.  A  light breeze, present before the  object  appeared,
disappeared.  Everything  became very still, as  the  object  was
approaching and while it was hovering.

 The  Moon  was still below the horizon. The sky  was  clear  and
dark, with stars clearly visible.

 A  "scanner" radio, I was monitoring, picked up severe noise  30
seconds  before, during, and while the object moved away from  my
location.

I did not experience any electrical effects (tingling or  prickly
sensations) during the sighting.

 The  sighting  lasted approximately 45 seconds.  There  was  not
enough time to get a camera and take pictures.

 Within  10  minutes, after the object left the area,  eight  Air
Force   jet  fighters  (F-4s,  judging  from  their   sound   and
appearance) and moving very fast, went overhead traveling in  the
same  direction  the  object had taken -owards  the  North.  Four
minutes  later, the fighters returned, heading south. I  presumed
the  object had been spotted by their radar. Their  quick  return
would indicate they lost radar contact with the object.


<Concluded in next message..>

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From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 17:14:19 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Mc Daniel) writes:
>> > > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to
>> > > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the
>> > > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really
>> > > something "out there" to be proven?
>> >
>> > so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial
>> > intelligence?
>> >
>>         Could you please explain this strange leap of logic you've made?
>> Since when does doubt about flying saucers equate with disbelief of
>> extraterrestrial intelligence? It seems perfectly reasonable that somecould
>> could accept that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and
>> doubt that they've been visiting this particular planet.
>>
>>         You seem to have made a small error in your reasoning. Please correct
>> it.
>
>I wholeheartedly concur. I happen to hold that opinion....

    Although it is odd that we exist *if*:

    Interstellar travel is possible.

    At least one ancient industrialised culture exists in our
    galaxy.

    Industrial cultures tend to grow with time.

    If all three were true, I'd expect some culture in the last few
billion years to have occupied those portions of the galaxy suitable for
industrial exploitation, and by occupying the niche, deny it to emerging
species. At 0.01 C, it only takes 10 million years to cross the galaxy
and  2 pi times that to circumnavigate it.

                                James Nicoll


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From: [e-mail] (Raven Zachary)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dulce...I was there.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 03:08:14 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Lines: 11


Greetings to Skeptics and Die-Hard Conspiracy FANS alike!

I spent a day in Dulce, and I can tell you that I found _NOTHING_ which seemed
suspicious.  I can not believe that Dulce houses anything but poor natives.

...Another crock from crooked people.

Someday, we'll separate the truth from the lies.  Let's stop speading lies.

Dulce is Dulce.  Just a small town.
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From: [e-mail] (Stephen Buckley)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 03:57:37 GMT
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[e-mail] writes:

>Dear Arasia: Thanks very much for sending me the information about
>your group.  It seems that you have many of the same mentors that
>have helped me over the years such as Sananda, Michael and Saint
>Germain. I remember one time I was on the sides of Mt. Shasta with
>a group of light workers that Sister Thedra had called together. It
>was raining where we were and snowing a few hundred feet further up
>the mountain.  Everone was a little late getting in place for the
>session and Michael was talking through a lady. He was really chewing
>out everybody for being so late.
>That's all for now.
>John Winston.

  if it was unavoidable for everyone to be a bit late, it sounds like
michael was being needlessly uptight.


---
  Stephen Buckley        /    professor of proton husbandry, &
  [e-mail]       /     president and ceo,
TrueNorthStrong&Free   /      vancouver chapter of the TBA:
   1-800-REALITY      /            (the Toronto Bashing Association)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Real Abduction
Keywords: n
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jul 92 22:48:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman  MT
Lines: 10


>Now that you have had your fun, I think I hear your mother calling you. :-)
>
>Mike

 Not another person channeling my dead mother! Ahhhhhhh!!  She just
 won't let me be! :-)


jr
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71
Message-ID: <1992Jul4.070724.9978@anasaz>
Date: 4 Jul 92 07:07:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Gorski) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public?
>>

I remember President Johnson holding up pictures of the SR-71 at a press
conference in 1964.  That's the same press conference where he showed his
scar and held his beagle up by its ears (those were the days, guys).
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz>
Date: 4 Jul 92 07:11:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
->In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
->>Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
->>make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
->>Hmm..
->
->Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS?
->
Yes. Unix too.


--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NASA censorship!
Message-ID: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz>
Date: 4 Jul 92 06:31:19 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA
Lines: 17

I've been off sick and haven't been on this group for awhile so I apologize
if this has been covered.

Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2,
transponder 5?  That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle.
Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff
NASA puts together for the news media.

Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle
mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this.  They're
using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty
serious about it.

--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh
From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 11:22:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 9
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6796 sci.skeptic:26835 alt.paranormal:5356

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>    If all three were true, I'd expect some culture in the last few
>billion years to have occupied those portions of the galaxy suitable for
>industrial exploitation, and by occupying the niche, deny it to emerging
>species. At 0.01 C, it only takes 10 million years to cross the galaxy
>and  2 pi times that to circumnavigate it.

It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through
a wormhole connecting the two ends.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Request: Mars face repost!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 13:47:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

You asked for a gif of the face on Mars.  Someone posted one on a collection
I put in called Number 5 Ley Line Collection article number 29. Maybe
you can copy it, look at it and give me  your opinion on it. As don't
yet know how to look at a gif on my computer.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 13:52:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Steve:
Thanks for the friendly flame.  I warms my heart.  I'll answer more
later.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!tke
From: [e-mail] (thomas.j.epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:19:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 31
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6799 sci.skeptic:26840 alt.paranormal:5358

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through
>a wormhole connecting the two ends.

Made the trip often, then?

Also:

    You can get to New York at the speed of light, provided you "beam" in,
    rather than drive or fly,

    The ancient Egyptians ran an inter-stellar filling station for the
    greys.  Those funny-looking pointy stone structures were bill-
    boards which also made nifty places to keep mummies,

    My farie godmother can make a wormhole that connects between my
    clothes dryer and all of my single socks which have fled to the
    planet of sentient knit items, Galfrondia III; but I asked her not
    to, because they are happier where they are now,

    I'll be publishing the secret of eternal youth as soon as my friend
    Ponce gets back from Florida with my notebook.

Darn, gotta go, the aliens at the door will NOT go away untill I've at least
looked at their stupid Antaries vacation condos flyer.

______________________________________________________________________________

    ---- Tom ------------------------------------- [e-mail]

==============================================================================
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:27:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Srnwhite:
I receive your comments about Betty and Barney Rubble and will give the
statement all of the consideration it deserves.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REPOST: Mars Face .GIF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:14:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

Dear Steve Leach:
Thanks for the gift of the GIF. I'll try to talk about it later if I
can learn how to have it be seen on my son's computer. I copied it on
my hard drive.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:09:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><l5wlw3-.payner@net
 com.com>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

Dear Julian Porter:
I'll do my best to be more careful in how I use the word UFO.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:23:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 8

Dear Mr. Robert Sheaffer:
I consider it an honor to be flamed by the greatest of flamers. In my
E=mail I got one person who stated that he or she didn't want me to
mention his or her name because he or she didn't want you or people
of your type to get after her or  him.  So if that is your purpose (that
is keeping down people who have ideas other than your own) then keep up
the good work.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:38:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 8

Dear Tom R.
It is unfortunate that you don't comprehend the forth dimension.
It might be good if you listen to the words of the song The Age of
Aquaris by the singing group called the Fifth Dimension. I believe
they once sang it at a superbowl football game. I would answer your
question to the best of my of my ability if I thought you were the
least bit serious.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:06:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><l5wlw3-.payner@net
 com.com>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

Dear Julian Porter:
You seem to have a problem believing that people are on Earth from Venus.
One of the people that I met from Venus was about 28 years old she had
been brought here when she was 2 years old and raised by foster parents
on Earth. She was married to a man from Hawaii and she had her son (who
was about 12 months) in her arms. She didn't want me to put her name in a
book I was writing at the time.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:45:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 8

Dear Rod:
Thanks for the flame.  It just adds to the total movement. Yes the
truth is out.  I would love to be the cousin of Gary Stollman.  While
I was away from the computer for a few months a person brought me the
most interesting things posted of the Newnet and one of the articles
was about and by Gary Stollman.  You may say what you like ahout him
but he is interesting.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:54:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

I have received through E=mail the addrees of the group called CAUS
from Murray from New Zealand. It is;
CAUS
P.O. Box 218
Coventry, Ct. 86238, USA.
They are a group I heard about before on the Newsnet who print stories
about UFOs and other things and they will print your story.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:07:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10597 alt.alien.visitors:6808 sci.skeptic:26844

Dear Arasis:
I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching
the fire works.  At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and
pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I
blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for
sure what) was blinking back.  I sent the people inside the mountain and
the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work
with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you
Arasis for your suggestion that we do this.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:17:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 18


    [e-mail] writes:
    Would you be so kind as to put down the mailing address of CAUS.

.... this address is from "Clear Intent", so it might be old, but here
it is:

    CAUS
    c/o Mr. Lawrence Fawcett
    471 Goose Lane
    Coventry, Connecticut 06238

.... CAUS puts out a newsletter, "Just Cause" (a neat 3-way pun, that),
but I don't know its publishing schedule or cost.

Hope this helps,

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:22:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Dear Steve:
I now have a little more time to answer you. I know your just pulling
my chain but due to the fact that your started a new collection about
this subject I give it the old college try to shed some light on
subject.  Venus is most of the things our scientist think it is in the
third dimensionsl physical form.  It's hot. Now if your had the ability
to perform astral projection then you could got there in one of your
many bodies.  Your could go there is the fourth dimension and see it
in that way and things look much better.  Tuesday Lobsang Rampa has a
lot of books out that explain astral projection is a very good way.
That's all for now. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bush reads tabloid story re aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:33:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 7

I wouldn't put much confidence in this story.  It is a good way to
sell a few papers and people do get a laugh out of it.  Some of the
stories in the Weekly World do have a grain of truth in them in my
humble opinion. To separate the truth from the fun is sometimes a
difficult matter.
That's all folks.
John Winton.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Need for an alien welcome
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:38:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Manuel:
Please be so kind to repost your article. Nothing came our about
your idea to Need For An Alien Welcome.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:45:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu

In article <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz>, billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
> ->In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
> ->>Interesting story, Gary.  You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd
> ->>make a great team.  Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"!
> ->>Hmm..
> ->
> ->Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS?
> ->
> Yes. Unix too.

No no, it was a Unix _clone_.  To avoid legal problems he called it "GNU",
meaning, of course, "Gary's Not Unix" (as for his clone - now that's another
matter entirely ;-)
--
James Harvey
[e-mail]  uucp: iugate!harvey  bitnet: harvey@indyvax
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.ecn.purdue.edu!lush
From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 15:25:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6814 sci.skeptic:26849 alt.paranormal:5359

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (thomas.j.epstein) writes:
>
>    You can get to New York at the speed of light
>
>    ---- Tom ------------------------------------- [e-mail]
>

It wasn't the trip that killed him, it was the sudden stop
at the end.

Greg
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 16:05:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 7

Dear Michael:
I read all of the information that you posted and appreciated your work
and the work of the The Phoenix Report but I don't believe it.  It doesn't
add up to me and I won't explain why. Your may be right and I'm wrong.
I hope I am wrong in this case.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 - Suspected Alien Base Discovery
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 16:16:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

The people in the dis=information group have surely succeeded in
confusing me.
lhat's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 16:21:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
>As I would ask on the "not-so-skeptic"
>side is the same thing I would ask of the "skeptic" side, and that is:  prove
>that it is ice/not ice.  What are the elements of evidence on both sides?

As long as there is no evidence for either side and, more important,
no evidence *against* either side, one should assume that it was
something already known to exist (such as ice), as Occam's Razor
(the one in the Subject line) states.  Only when evidence to the
contrary is presented, the alien hypothesis gets interesting.

Evidence for ice is not necessary; ice is default.  If there is
evidence for that, fine.  If not, it was still *probably* ice.

You seem to assume that both hypotheses are equally valid but
they are not.  The alien hypothesis is more expensive (more
assumptions).

--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!banach.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Perot and friend
Keywords: alien, nudism
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 16:59:43 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Distribution: na
Organization: Montana State University, College of Engineering
Lines: 8

While in the local 7-11 I saw a copy of the Weekly World News.
Sure enough that little alien is buck naked! He appears to be
telling Perot something humorous. The rumor among convenience
store cashiers is that he's saying, "Hey, you think I look
funny in the buff--- imagine Barbara Bush."


jr
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 17:19:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10599 alt.alien.visitors:6819 sci.skeptic:26867

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Arasis:
>I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching
>the fire works.  At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and
>pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I
>blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for
>sure what) was blinking back.

If I read this right, I bet the people on Mt. Shasta thought they had
contacted ET's as well. Now we have 2 sightings, I guess that verifies
it. :^)

>                               I sent the people inside the mountain and
>the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work
>with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you
>Arasis for your suggestion that we do this.
>That's all folks.
>John Winston.


Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 17:31:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Mr. Robert Sheaffer:
>I consider it an honor to be flamed by the greatest of flamers. In my

Having read and enjoyed Mr. Sheaffer's posts for a while, I can honestly
say that I have never seen him post a flame. If he does flame, it must
be by email, but I doubt that this is the case.

Would that I had as much patience in dealing with Ted Alter in another
group.

>E=mail I got one person who stated that he or she didn't want me to
>mention his or her name because he or she didn't want you or people
>of your type to get after her or  him.  So if that is your purpose (that
>is keeping down people who have ideas other than your own) then keep up
>the good work.
>John Winston.

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 14:21:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes...
>Hello Anybody,
>
>Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave
>that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB)
>held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on
>the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB)


        Get a life!


        Steve Food_for_the_Grey
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: DEATH TO THE CIA!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 01:55:08 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6822 alt.conspiracy:16426

WHIMMMPPPEERRRR!!!!!!!

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: DEATH TO THE CIA!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jul 92 01:55:08 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
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WWWHHHIIINNNEEEE!!!!!!!

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Article is xrefed to alt.conspiracy:16407
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!rmm20
From: [e-mail] (Robert Mitchell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <bcs802I918=[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 18:39:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Robert Mitchell)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz>, billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
>> ->In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
>> ->
>> ->Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS?
>> ->
>> Yes. Unix too.

The author of GNU EMACS, etc. is Richard M. Stallman.
Please do not try to relate him to Gary...

 - Robert Mitchell
--
UUCP:  [e-mail]
DDD:   408-746-8491
USPS:  Amdahl Corp.  M/S 205,  1250 E. Arques Av,  Sunnyvale, CA 94086
BIX:   bobmitchell
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From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 19:45:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (thomas.j.epstein) writes:
>>
>>    You can get to New York at the speed of light
>>
>>    ---- Tom ------------------------------------- [e-mail]
>>
>
>It wasn't the trip that killed him, it was the sudden stop
>at the end.
>
>Greg

More to the point: it takes a year alone just to accelerate up to near the
speed of light at a constant 1G.

A second point absolutely everybody neglects: unless the ship is obtaining
its fuel from outer space in its path, it has to carry all its fuel on board.
In that case, the initial mass of the ship + fuel IS EXPONENTIAL in the amount
of time expected to spend accelerating and decelerating!!

Compared to the fuel payload of the shuttle that (say) may spend a few minutes
in thrust, the fuel required for a ship in constant acceleration for a year
is e^(1 year/15 minutes) ... which comes out to about e^30000, which is a
1 followed by about, oh, about 15000 ZEROS!

If you use nuclear propulsion, maybe you can cut this ratio down to a more
reasonable 1 followed by 1000 zeros.  Then you have it made! :)

Therefore you can almost certainly conclude that any extraterrestial ship
that may be present in our solar system for the purpose of exploration and
survey did NOT get here by travelling through the intervening space.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 19:39:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Steve:
Please pardon me, I put down I warms my heart and it should have been
It warms my heart.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A need for an alien welcome
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 19:42:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Manuel:
Nothing came through on your posting.  Please post it again. It sounds
like an interesting subject.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 20:23:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

steve,[I write,then you reply]


In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes...
>Hello Anybody,
>
>Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave
>that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB)
>held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on
>the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB)


        >>Get a life!


        >>Steve Food_for_the_Grey



I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true.

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj
From: [e-mail] (Jyri L. Palm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <np=[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 20:54:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth24.its.rpi.edu

[e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:

>Hello Anybody,

>Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave
>that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB)
>held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on
>the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB)
>was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get
>elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think

Standing in the grocery line, I browsed this issue.  The text said something
like Bush met with the alien last year at camp David, but the alien now met
with perot.

On CNN, I saw the clip with the president.  Someone showed Bush the tabloid,
and so George decided to make a big joke out of it.  He read parts of it out
loud and then made smoe cute (but sarcastic) comments.

"Alien meets with George Bush at Camp David...Hey I TOLD him this was
supposed to be a secret...Alien meets with Perot...I feel really betrayed...
I can't believe this...He told me..."

It was all in fun...joking...I really hope nobody takes it seriously.  Even
if there really are aliens here...this is an unrelated bit of humor.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 21:10:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

I enjoyed your article very much and will probubly check out the area
sometime.  I've been up in that general area before.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
I've interviewed Mr. Harder before and he's a hard person to figure out.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 21:23:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10607 alt.alien.visitors:6831 sci.skeptic:26895

Yes Shuckley Michael gets a little up tight, but we had it coming.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 21:27:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10608 alt.alien.visitors:6832 sci.skeptic:26896

That's right Rich. We'll make a master of you yet but it may take a
while.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 21:40:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 2

Dear Rich: It sure looked like a flame to me.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 16:31:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes...
> * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
> * Originally from Michael Corbin
> * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:20
>
 - Dulce report deleted -
>--
>Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
>UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
>INTERNET: [e-mail]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I've been waiting years to see someone take enough interest to start
doing some serious checking into this stuff.
On the internal Digital network, we have a UFO interest file. Someone reported
a crop circle here in Mass. I went to check it out, expecting to find people
crawling all over it. Nothing. As far as I could tell, I was the first to look
at it up close. Later, after reporting to the UFO file, it seems I was the only
one who -ever- bothered to go look at it -at all-. It was right off a
multi-lane highway, for pete's sake! It seems an awful lot of people swallow
anything they're fed, unquestioned...

For those who are wondering, I don't believe it was a crop circle, not like
we've come to know in England, for instance. It was a small area of flattened
cattails of irregular shape, in a marshy area.

-Tom R.   [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 23:27:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Reply-To: [e-mail]
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
>>As I would ask on the "not-so-skeptic"
>>side is the same thing I would ask of the "skeptic" side, and that is:  prove
>>that it is ice/not ice.  What are the elements of evidence on both sides?

>As long as there is no evidence for either side and, more important,
>no evidence *against* either side, one should assume that it was
>something already known to exist (such as ice), as Occam's Razor
>(the one in the Subject line) states.  Only when evidence to the
>contrary is presented, the alien hypothesis gets interesting.

Sadly, Occam's Razor can more of a hindrance than a help in situations like
this (don't get me wrong - I'm a great proponent of Occam's Razor).  The
skeptics point at the Razor and the video and say "it is ice, because that is
the simplest explanation".  The skeptics official view then goes on record
against any effort of the other side to do further follow-up work to see if
indeed the simple explanation is not the right one (or if it is the right one
after all).  The researchers who wish to do follow-up work get buried under
"expert skeptic opinion", and the truth remains hidden.

To the skeptics and those who take a skeptic's word as gospel: it would be
well to remember that simple does not equal right.

Cheers,

Rhys.

P.S. I personally think it is probably ice in this case, but my comments apply
     equally to other skeptic/non-skeptic debates on the UFO phenomenon.
--
Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
[e-mail]  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 00:00:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Michael,

Didn't the Bill Moore get tangled up in this situation? Didn't this whole
episode cause Paul Bennewitz to have a nervous breakdown? Do you have any
further documentation on this aspect of the investigation? I for one would
like to find out where some (if not all) of the disinformation came
from.Are there any other investigations "The Phoenix Project is working on
?

Thanks,

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <x_6lv![e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 23:53:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Rich: It sure looked like a flame to me.
>John Winston.

John, a rebuttal is not a flame.

If I post, "I think you have reasoned incorrectly based upon..."
or "I think that your starting assumptions are wrong..."

Then you have not been flamed.

But if I were to sa something rude like...

"Only an idiot would believe anything stupid like that, get a life"

THEN, you would be flamed.

As long as it is calm, reasoned, reasonable, and impersonal, it is not
called flaming. The moment it gets personal and rude, then it is a flame.

So if someone just questions your post, or argues your logic, you have
not been flamed.


Rich

[e-mail]

(OK, I have done a bit myself. But there are times when it -is- a valid
response. Calmer minds like Robert Shaeffer do not flame even when it
would be considered a valid response)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 18:28:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
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[e-mail] (Leon Hamilton) writes:

> I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool
> alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the
> best.

        Naw, my vote goes for the Mugwumps in 'Naked Lunch.'


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!news.bbn.com!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 01:12:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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    [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
    Didn't the Bill Moore get tangled up in this situation? Didn't
    this whole episode cause Paul Bennewitz to have a nervous
    breakdown?

.... at least one version of this tale appears in Howard Blum's "Out
There" (Simon and Schuster, NY, 1990).  I too would be interested in
comments about how correct it is.  The way its written, Blum talked
to Moore himself...

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 02:56:37 GMT
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In article [e-mail], [e-mail] () writes:
>Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed
>act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through
>the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a
>small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it
>become significant.
>
>So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a
>spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid
>matter.
>
>Fun idea, though...

The idea is to put all matter that comes into contact with the field
into a bosonic state also, allowing it to pass through the original
mass and returning to a non-bosonic state as it leave the other side,
so there would be no vessel in this sense. There would, however, be a
problem of keeping the two mass fields separated, perhaps by
maintaining them in slightly different alignments.


---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 03:17:00 GMT
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In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
>>|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get
>>|> so close to one another
>the effect which you describe (variously called "Pauli pressure",
>"degeneracy pressure", "wave-function antisymmetrization","fermionic repulsion".
>and a host of other names)  does not preclude fermions from being arbitrarily
>close in phase space for short times, although it decreases the probability.

Bear with me here. I could discuss this in terms of QED, but lose much of the
intended audience. Simplification here means eliminating discussion in terms
of probabilities. I am trying to avoid a physics lecture and focus on some lines
of speculation that while probably unsound may lead to some interesting ideas.

The resistance of material bodies to interpenetration is, after all, only a
matter of probabilities. There is a certain nonzero probability that any two
bodies upon encountering one another will simply pass through one another, or
tunnel through, but the probability is very, very low. The point here is to
try to devise thought experiments in which that probability can be increased
to nearly unity, and then try to find out why the experiments won't work. If
we have a lot of trouble debunking such a thought experiment, we might learn
something.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
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From: [e-mail] (brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 02:25:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26931 alt.paranormal:5361 alt.alien.visitors:6842

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tim W Smith) writes:
|> Is a UFO coverup like a car bra?


No, like what a babe where's to the beach.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ncar!uchinews!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 03:40:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 34
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6843 sci.skeptic:26937 alt.paranormal:5362

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (thomas.j.epstein) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
|> >It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through
|> >a wormhole connecting the two ends.
|>
|> Made the trip often, then?
|>
|> Also:
|>
|>     You can get to New York at the speed of light, provided you "beam" in,
|>     rather than drive or fly,
|>
|>     The ancient Egyptians ran an inter-stellar filling station for the
|>     greys.  Those funny-looking pointy stone structures were bill-
|>     boards which also made nifty places to keep mummies,
|>
|>     My farie godmother can make a wormhole that connects between my
|>     clothes dryer and all of my single socks which have fled to the
|>     planet of sentient knit items, Galfrondia III; but I asked her not
|>     to, because they are happier where they are now,
|>
|>     I'll be publishing the secret of eternal youth as soon as my friend
|>     Ponce gets back from Florida with my notebook.
|>
|> Darn, gotta go, the aliens at the door will NOT go away untill I've at least
|> looked at their stupid Antaries vacation condos flyer.


Yeah, I hate it when they do that.  Usually, just as you're getting in the
shower they come around.  And, they won't take no for an answer.  Pushy little
grey skinned buggers.


Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 04:15:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26938 alt.paranormal:5363 alt.alien.visitors:6844

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (brick Wilbur) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tim W Smith) writes:
|> |> Is a UFO coverup like a car bra?
|>
|>
|> No, like what a babe where's to the beach.
                        ^^^^^^^

oopps,   should be "wears".

Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 03:48:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10617 alt.alien.visitors:6845 sci.skeptic:26939

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> Dear Arasis:
|> I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching
|> the fire works.  At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and
|> pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I
|> blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for
|> sure what) was blinking back.  I sent the people inside the mountain and
|> the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work
|> with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you
|> Arasis for your suggestion that we do this.
|> That's all folks.
|> John Winston.


Is this guy for real?

Anyone know him?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:20:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 6
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6846 sci.skeptic:26942

There are degrees and types of enlightment. The one you get sometimes
from being abducted by friendly space people is that they enlighten
you as to the fact that you have been on their planet or dimension
before this life and they are your long lost brothers and sisters.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA censorship!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 03:31:32 GMT
References: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 21

In article <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz>, billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
|> I've been off sick and haven't been on this group for awhile so I apologize
|> if this has been covered.
|>
|> Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2,
|> transponder 5?  That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle.
|> Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff
|> NASA puts together for the news media.
|>
|> Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle
|> mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this.  They're
|> using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty
|> serious about it.
|>
|> --
|> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|>      Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
|> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Oh, I dont know....CONSPIRACY MAYBE!!??
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 03:43:39 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 3

What the hell is a ley line, and who started that post?!

Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 04:06:43 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 9

Who is Occams, and what about his razor?

Does it get close than the Remingtion Micro Screen?

Is it sharper than a Ginsu Knife??

What's up with his razor?

Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: k-2 phoenix report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 04:23:27 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Followup-To: Phoenix report
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 14

Remember, this k-2 report could also be disinformation.

Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that
this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the
real base in California.

Anyone know about this Phoenix place?  OR the validity of either reports?

Sounds incredible, but let's check their credibility, and the credibility of
the posting to this group and others.

Anybody with any insight?

Brick
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From: [e-mail] (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: k-2 phoenix report (Phoenix Foundation Info!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 06:13:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>Remember, this k-2 report could also be disinformation.
>Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that
>this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the
>real base in California.
>Anyone know about this Phoenix place?  OR the validity of either reports?
>

   All I know is that the Phoenix Foundation has a resourceful agent
by the name of MacGyver.  And if he's on their side...I'd be careful.

--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ [e-mail] ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 08:27:34 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 334
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10618 alt.alien.visitors:6852 sci.skeptic:26950

Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation. As far as the crack
pot last time, who said breathing can kill you, he was kidding or is in
such personal terror that he made up that belief to guarantee he will not
get near my hot tub.  The truth is this process is not for wimps. Only one
in ten of my clients is men.  Men are in so much horror over feeling that
they encapsulate themselves in denial and ego with the accompanying
rationalizations and justifications.  BTW, I counsel 10 to 20 of these
hyperventilating sessions a week and I have been doing it for over 15
years.  People do not die in my tub,  they become more alive then they have
been for many, many lifetimes. It is pretty obvious that these concepts are a
little to much for most who subscribe to these three groups. So I am
starting a Pleiadian Group List for those who would like to ask questions,
make comments and learn more about these powerful,  incredible teachings.
Email me for more information.

Don Showen
Soul Guide
Pleiadian Group
Church/School/Community
ET Teachings at their finest

Immortality of Being and Contact

The death experience as you know it, is something that you program
yourselves for. Your aging process is something that is an expectation
within your lifetimes. We would like to plant the seed for the idea that
you will be around perhaps for at least a hundred more of your years, if
you so choose. If you so choose. What you are going to be working on is an
understanding and a releasing of ideas that have set about limitations for
your experience and how to reprogram, so to speak,  how to release trauma
that has been built in, that is coded and written within the bones and the
cells of your structure that anticipate a certain form of development.

This is not a new idea, this idea of immortality. But it is an idea that is
going to come alive. You are being prepared to teach the masses whether you
realize it or not. Each of you will be working in a different fashion,
manifesting your own unique sense of creativity. Yet, each one will be
catching the core issues that are being stirred up in the masses at this
time.

It is imperative that many of you stay around to help formulate the new
earth that is being birthed. You are not being trained to work for perhaps
twenty or thirty more of your years and then to retire. That is not what
this is about. You are in the midst of a gigantic shift in consciousness
covering the entire earth sphere, Terra. At this point in your time, you
are only looking through one pin-prick of a view of what this is going to
involve. It is beyond your comprehension. Rest easy with this for it will
open as you are in receptivity to understand what is needed to know.

This idea of immortality, this longevity in the life experience, will have
to do with your understanding of the importance of aligning the beliefs
with the vehicle, of utilizing the great healer and regenerator called
oxygen on your system, and how through breathing and the releasing of
limiting ideas and limiting programs that have been placed on the vehicle,
you will allow yourself to regenerate.

Some of you may feel despondent at this idea because your lives are not in
harmony at this time and you may say, "I do not want to live 100 more
years." [This will change] as certain difficulties are brought to the
surface and released and worked out. This will come about through your
intentions. It will come about in a natural process. It will develop over
time. We are giving you an avenue of exploration to show you what you are
working towards. As you make your lives in order and as you are forming the
new earth you will want to be here for the gratification and for the
satisfaction and for the ability to have this great completion that will
free you with flying colors from your tethers to your Mother Earth.

You all expect to die.You celebrate your birthdays and you are most joyous
about these birthdays to a certain age. Then you begin to dread them
because you have a program set out for yourself that says that each
birthday is bringing about the degeneration of the body, bringing about a
decrepit state, a state of ill health, a state that promotes inactivity.
Your cards in your stores that you buy promote this. You turn 29 years old
and you say to yourself you are over the hill. We are bringing this up to
you because we have been working with you and preparing you not for a few
years of excitement but for many years if you choose. It is always up to
you.

There are probable lives that exist in front of you that are free of
physical difficulty. If you wish to be free of physical difficulties it is
you that needs to be in receptivity of healing. Healing is necessary when
there is a discomfort within the body. A discomfort exists within the body
when one refuses the growth that the soul needs to experience. It is a
blockage of growth. It is a fear of change.

You have heard us speak often enough how important it is to change and yet
each and every one of you fear change and you wish to control down to the
minutest detail every aspect of your lives. When you allow the vehicle to
move forward without fear, then there is no need for discomfort or disease.
When you learn to believe that you can maintain a consistency of body
structure, a consistency of cell regeneration, then truly will you be able
to demonstrate to others.

Expand your ideas, particularly in the areas of aging and immortality,
about who you can be. You can revitalize yourselves. There are ancient
sciences, as we may call them, on your planet who have spoken of the
importance of the breath over and over again. And yet to you it all seems
like too much work. What do you all have in common with one another
throughout the entire planet? You all need to breathe. Is that not so? And
what is it this oxygen does to your system? It regenerates it. It activates
what is going on inside.

In this time of energy acceleration it would behoove each and every one of
you to add more oxygen to your being. There are many ways to do this. The
most simplistic is to become consciously aware of your breath. Through the
breath you can do many things. You can activate the crystalline structures
or deactivate the crystalline structures. You can activate your own self.
You can clear energy that is coming between two beings purely by inhaling
and releasing. You can bring about a state of great calmness. You can bring
about a state of altered consciousness. You can bring about a state of
healing. You can bring about, eventually, a state of teleportation and
bi-location and dematerialization. This is all something that you are
working towards.

The second part of our discussion is about being in preparation and what it
is to have contact. Contact has existed on your planet from the very
beginning. There have been those that have come down and it has been their
life journey to sojourn on your planet and to teach cultures. There are
those who are even on this day sequestered away within the deep catacombs,
as you would call them, the deep underground tunnels and monasteries of
your ancient Tibetan area that house the bodies of those who are kept in
what you would call perpetuity so that they can be reminded of the star
teachers who have given so much to this planet.

Whenever mankind has made a leap forward that leap has come because mankind
has been guided and because mankind asked for assistance. Much information
is transferred to your planet in a variety of ways. Each and every one of
you is on the verge of having great volumes of information come through to
you. It is up to you whether you are going to believe this. It is up to you
whether you are going to call out and ask for a teacher and ask for the
assistant that you are needing in this moment to bring about your life's
work and fulfillment. You are all here for really important reasons.

Eventually you each are going to be coming into contact. That may occur in
a variety of ways. You have heard us say over and over again that there are
many dimensions of experience. Each dimension of experience has its own
validity. As third dimensional man who would call "real" only one portion
of its existence, when everything you perceive and everything you feel is
real.

Prepare yourselves and wait in each and every moment for more information,
for a gentle love to come through and relinquish your fear. You may think
it is easy for us to say to relinquish your fears. It is easy to say. Your
fears have to do with a multitudinous buildup that has come from your
childhood. What your ideas of the unknown may be, what your ideas of safety
may be and what is in store for you.

At first, you may be startled when one comes into your presence and
resonates four or five feet off the ground and gives you teachings for an
hour or two. Yet, if that is your experience, you have called it to
yourself.

This year you would find that each month, each one of your moons, will
multiply itself exponentially prior to the month that you have just
experienced. So whatever it was that you have experienced in your month
that has just passed, you will find that it will double itself in the next
month. It will continue to build. You are creating for yourselves a massive
acceleration because you are each calling it to yourself.

You had best, if you wish to take our advice, keep yourself in balance and
by all means, clearly call out through prayer or through intention,
whichever feels more correct to you, call out to what you are desiring to
manifest and utilize the great gifts that are coming your way. You each
have selected yourselves and you each have placed yourself in an
opportunity to grow beyond your wildest dreams. We are here as always to
assist. We encourage you and we say to you that there is a pathway of joy
and glory that lies in front of you and it is all that you need to know.
Move yourself towards this.

QUESTION: Will we begin eating a lighter and lighter diet as we learn to
rejuvenate ourselves and learn to take more energy out of the ethers and
less out of our physical surroundings?

PLEIADIANS: You've got it. For those of you who like food, it is not that
you need to let it go. It is not that it is going to be a great sacrifice.
It is that you will find that there are alternative ways of being and you
will find that those habits that you had you are no longer in desire of
participating within.

You will find, many of you, that as you begin to oxygenate the system more,
that you would bring about a greater state of energy and that as you begin
to bring about this greater state of energy you will find that it is not
necessarily coming from the food source, that it is coming from light, that
it is coming from meditation, it is coming from being aligned with your
thoughts and the changing of your beliefs and that the body does not have
to be based on what your nutritionists say you need to have to keep alive.

QUESTION: What would be the first step we should take in this rejuvenation
process?

PLEIADIANS: Oxygenation. Oxygenation flushes out what is unnecessary and
keeps the body full of light. Breathing is the main thing. There are
additives that are also oxygenators. There are many assistants to bring
about oxygenation [that you can buy].

The breath has not been focused on enough. All of these other things
certainly assist you but breathing is your key. Whatever it is that you are
going to add to your lives, utilize the great process of breathing. Each
man on your planet has been given all that is needed to come to a
completion. It is you, yourselves, who go about inventing things to assist
this and there is nothing wrong with this. We applaud your creativity. But
you, yourselves, each have the ability and your breathing is one of your
greatest tools.

There are many techniques. There are many journeys that can be taken by
utilization of the breath alone. Utilizing the breath and the oxygenation
process in conjunction with taking substances that have oxygen within them,
particularly if you participate in foods that are rich in oxygen, you are
enhancing a lightness of being. You are activating an energy form that
brings about greater states of awareness.

QUESTION: You began the evening talking about contact. I feel that I have
been contacted but I'm not sure whether it was real or not.

PLEIADIANS: What do you think we're going to say that you were imagining
it? What have we been speaking to you about imagination? What have we been
speaking to you about the various realms of experience? They are
legitimate. You had your wits about you and you were told at that moment to
receive. Many of you are surrounded on a continual basis. It is up to you
to have your wits to receive.

Some of you will begin to feel pressure on your body, to feel pressure on
your skin. There will be slight hintings. There will be feelings around you
in the atmosphere that the air has changed. There will be a difference in
the light molecular structure in front of you. This is all a portion of a
variety of energies that are attempting to communicate with you. More than
[the fact that] these entities are attempting to communicate with you is
that you, yourself, have broken down your barriers as to your definitions
of what you think is possible. You are moving more steadfastly into what
you would call fourth dimensional experience which allows you to be feelers
and not thinkers.

QUESTIONS: What about our fears of contact?

PLEIADIANS: There are very few existing on the planet at this time who are
fearless. So, first of all, relinquish any judgment you may have of
yourself or of others who are facing their fears. One of the best ways to
overcome fear is to acknowledge it. Where you trick yourselves and you try
to pretend that you are not afraid, you hold on and you hide deep inside of
your being this intimate feeling that you will not admit because you think
it is a weakness. When you lay it out in front of you and you say, "I am
afraid," you are willing the issue to a head and you are asking that you
understand this fear and you are asking for assistance in this area.

When you have fear, particularly of contact, you are fearing that there is
going to be the unknown, the "x" factor, that is going to come in and
affect you in a way that you will feel out of control with. We have been
saying that your world is a result of your thought manifestation. This idea
works in all of the realms of experience.

Your intention about the kind of experience you wish to have can literally
change in the moment. If ever you are finding, whether it be in third,
fourth or fifth dimensional experience, that you are drawing to yourself
something less than what you are choosing, then you must learn to believe
that you can vanquish that in an instant whether it be a dream or one who
would come to literally attack you. Your powers are such. Your thoughts
will send out a wall of protection and you can use a thrust of energy that
will stop whatever is coming your way.

When you are feeling a fear and if you wish to stop the experience and you
are not prepared for it, state this and put up around yourself a shield of
light and know that that shield of light is as real as any wall that you
would build with cinder blocks. This is what you are teaching yourselves,
that your thoughts form your world.

The large majority of you will not be in need of protection because you
have the ability to understand that you would draw to yourself the highest
of light energy. If you are desiring contact, ask that the contact come in
a time when you are safe, when you are comfortable, that you not be
startled.

Define how you wish contact. If you are going about saying, "I want
contact. I want contact," what are you going to get? If you want contact in
a certain condition in certain parameters of experience, state this. "I
would like to have..." and define in the affirmative how you would be
designing your experience. "I would enjoy contact with one who would
approach me with love and that I immediately sense this and that I
immediately move into a state of receptivity. I [want to be] contacted by
one whose physical visage and vibration is something that I am comfortable
with." It is up to you to design how adventurous you wish your experiences.
There will be a time when you will be gathering so many experiences that we
will be pushed to the background waiting our turn to come in.

There are many, many contacts going on on the planet at this time. Your
universe is teeming with life. Just because one has certain abilities does
not necessarily mean that they are of the highest intentions. When you are
bringing an understanding of teaching into your life and energies from the
outside, whether they be extraterrestrial or whatever fashion or form the
higher energies come to you, discernment is most important.

The way you discern is by the feeling in the center portion of your body.
How is it that you feel? Are you feeling in comfort? Are you feeling
uplifted? What is the message that is being given? Are you being pointed to
your own abilities or are you being asked to do something that does not
feel comfortable to you? All of these are keys.

Most definitely on your planet you are going to be experiencing great
confusion because it is all going to break loose very shortly. All that has
been covered up, all that has been kept from you is going to come out in
this decade and you are all going to have the opportunity to fine tune
discernment and to align yourself with energies human and otherwise that
will afford opportunities for your growth. It is you that, through your
intention, will decide how that growth will be.

[Most of] the beings coming from the skies at this time are those to
enhance the spiritual understanding of mankind. Mankind will learn to
resonate with his own beauty and great desire to become one with the higher
realms. Do not call those who come from the sky aliens. Realize that we are
your ancient heritage and that many have come to assist you. Many have come
to reawaken and allow you to move beyond this time that you have been
greatly sequestered by your own energies. We congratulate you on your
journeys into yourselves.

The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system
the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from
another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a
tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we
are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family
because many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new
experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are here as ambassadors from another
universe to help Earth through her transition from the third dimension to
the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of
awakening, remembering and knowing.
     Barbara J. Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel from
North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of
the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many
seekers looking to be all that they can be. Barbara has channeled at
various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru and in
Germany. She is planning trips to Egypt, Japan, Australia and Europe in
1990.
     You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections, P. O. Box 6521, Raleigh,
NC 27628.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mixcom.com!jjwwjj
From: [e-mail] (Robotic Systems)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 02:39:52 GMT
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Lines: 16

Has anyone else seen the Miller Brewing Company commericial for LITE
beer? It features Greys partying with LITE beer and a crop "circle" in
the shape of the LITE beer logo.

This must be part of the consipiracy to get us all used to the idea of
aliens (before the government announces they are real, they've got to
get us "warmed up" to the idea... Steve_Food_For_The_Greys watch out!).



--
===============================================================================
ROBOTIC SYSTEMS, INC.                                           CLINT LASKOWSKI
P. O. Box 552                                                    [phone]
Cudahy, Wisconsin  53110-0552                                 [e-mail]
===============================================================================
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 13:26:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
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Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsyb.desy.de

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
> In article [e-mail], [e-mail] () writes:
>>Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed
>>act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through
>>the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a
>>small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it
>>become significant.
>>
>>So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a
>>spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid
>>matter.
>>
>>Fun idea, though...
>
> The idea is to put all matter that comes into contact with the field
> into a bosonic state also, allowing it to pass through the original
> mass and returning to a non-bosonic state as it leave the other side,
> so there would be no vessel in this sense. There would, however, be a
> problem of keeping the two mass fields separated, perhaps by
> maintaining them in slightly different alignments.
>
>
That still doesn't help you. By its bosonic properties, superfluid helium has
zero viscosity and has special properties such as "second sound". But by your
reasoning, the molecules would be able to pass arbitrarily close to each other
without interacting at all. This would allow the helium to occupy a much
smaller volume (approaching zero), but this is clearly not the case. Once the
atoms of helium get close enough to each other, the effects of the individual
fermions in the atoms (the protons, neutrons, and electrons) become significant
and the electron shells repel. The bosonic properties only work at a more
macroscopic level (molecules in a liquid).

So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them
at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim...

Sam Silverstein
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp
From: [e-mail], , Inc.>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 06:01:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 24

I have one.  It's called the Mason-Dixon Milkshake
or better known as the 'Blue and the Grey'.

Ingredients: 100 cups of whole milk
               1 Grey alien (of average size)
              50 Smurfs
              assorted spices such as cinnamon, nutmeg, etc...

Directions:   Slice Grey alien into 50 equal parts and place one part along
              with one whole smurf into a blender.  Add two cups of milk and
              puree thoroughly for at least 2 minutes.  Pour into tall glass
              and season to taste with cinnamon & nutmeg.

Makes 50 delicious servings suitable for any occasion such as family reunions,
New Years Eve parties (who needs Egg Nog), and everything from a backyard
barbeque to a baptism.  May be served hot during the winter months to ward
off the evening chill.  Makes 50 servings; enough for all your friends and
family.  For summer months, try freezing it into popsicles.  You'll be the
envy of everyone else at the beach.

Enjoy!

George Newell
umasp@maine
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bush reads tabloid story re aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 13:40:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Keith Rowell) writes...
>A strange article showed up recently in newspapers. The
>following article was accompanied by a photo showing President
>Bush clearly reading the July 14, 1992, issue of the World Weekly

        ad nausium.....


        Get a LIFE!!!!


        Steve Food_for_the_Greys
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 13:45:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stephen Buckley) writes...
>[e-mail] writes:
>
>>Dear Arasia: Thanks very much for sending me the information about

        Who's this Arasia babe?????

        Wait a minute....

        Arasia... Arasia....

        I'VE GOT IT!  ARASIA  is  the  name  of the planet in E.E.  "DOC"
        Smiths  "Lensman" science fiction series.   This  is  the  planet
        where  the  Galactic  Patrol  members  go to  become  Lensmen  by
        receiving there lens braclets from the super powerful Arasians.

        Jezzzzus Keyyyrist people GET A LIFE!!!!


        Steve Food_for_the_Greys
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 14:00:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes...
>        >>Steve Food_for_the_Greys
>
>
>
>I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true.
>
>Rod


        FYI "Food_for_the_Greys"  is  a dig at those who believe that the
        Greys are cultivating humans as food.

        Rod

        Evidently you believe  that  "The  World News" is something to be
        read and believed just like the "World Wrestling Federation" is a
        true sport and not rehearsed.  FYI the "The World News" is owed by
        the  "National  Enquirer"  and prints stuff  that  the  "National
        Enquirer" deems too rediculous to print.

        Steve  Food_for_the_Greys
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: k-2 phoenix report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 12:01:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|>
|> Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that
|> this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the
|> real base in California.
|>

Excuse me, but isn't The Phoenix Foundation the group that McGyver works
for on Monday Nights???

Well, if anybody could find a UFO base, I guess it would be him.

bill

--

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     [e-mail]   |  This space would be left intentionally blank
     [e-mail]    |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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From: [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Keywords: n
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jul 92 23:03:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: College of Hosiery Science
Lines: 13


>        >>Get a life!
>
>        >>Steve Food_for_the_Grey
>
>I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true.
>
>Rod

 Yeah, because Rod's writing a new book---How to Flame a Skeptic. :-)


 jr
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 15:25:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Steve,[I WRITE,T>        >>Steve Food_for_the_Greys
>
>
>
>I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true.
>
>Rod


       >> FYI "Food_for_the_Greys"  is  a dig at those who believe that
the
       >> Greys are cultivating humans as food.

       >> Rod

        >>Evidently you believe  that  "The  World News" is something to
be
        >>read and believed just like the "World Wrestling Federation" is
a
        >>true sport and not rehearsed.  FYI the "The World News" is owed
by
        >>the  "National  Enquirer"  and prints stuff  that  the
"National
        >>Enquirer" deems too rediculous to print.

        >>Steve  Food_for_the_Greys

steve,

Do not put words into my mouth,I was not concerned with the validity of the
article that was is the tabloid. I was more interested why our President
would even mention it.Its obvious that your interpretation skills are
lacking.

At any rate I think your dig is premature,we really have no idea what the
intention of these creatures are.At least now I have the piece of mind
knowing that you will be first in line to sacrifice yourself for the good
of all mankind. I hope they don't find you to sour though,they might just
decide to keep you alive cause ya taste so bad & just decide to manipulate
your DNA.It could be ugly.....Careful what you wish for!!

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 15:32:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

    QUESTION: What would be the first step we should take in this rejuvenation
    process?

    PLEIADIANS: Oxygenation. Oxygenation flushes out what is unnecessary and
    keeps the body full of light. Breathing is the main thing. There are
    additives that are also oxygenators. There are many assistants to bring
    about oxygenation [that you can buy].

Don't forget beets.
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     FEELINGS are cascading over me!!!
 |warren@
/ nysernet.org
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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 17:15:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
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Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10626 alt.alien.visitors:6863 sci.skeptic:26972

This is a relief.  Its been a while since we heard from them, and
I was beginning to worry that the Pleiadians had forsaken us.
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From: [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 19:26:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes...
>In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
>>>[e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:
>>>|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get
>>>|> so close to one another
>>the effect which you describe (variously called "Pauli pressure",
>>"degeneracy pressure", "wave-function antisymmetrization","fermionic repulsion".
>>and a host of other names)  does not preclude fermions from being arbitrarily
>>close in phase space for short times, although it decreases the probability.
>
>Bear with me here. I could discuss this in terms of QED, but lose much of the
>intended audience. Simplification here means eliminating discussion in terms
>of probabilities. I am trying to avoid a physics lecture and focus on some lines
>of speculation that while probably unsound may lead to some interesting ideas.
>
>If we have a lot of trouble debunking such a thought experiment, we might learn
>something.

I had no problem debunking the idea - but I won't convince you if you tell me
that we must discuss the idea without using physics.  Furthermore, if your
ideas are unsound, then they are not likely to lead to interesting ideas, only
interesting fictions.

In a part of your post which I deleted to save space, you bring up tunnelling.
From what you described, your idea was based upon the properties of bosons.
This has nothing to do with tunnelling.

Finally, the whole idea is junked by the fact that you can't turn off the
electromagnetic repulsion between the surfaces of macroscopic objects.  That's
what keeps objects from interpenetrating in the first place.  It has nothing
to do with spin, statistics, etc.

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase            "The question seems to be of such a character
[e-mail]        that if I should come to life after my death
                and some mathematician were to tell me that it
                had been definitely settled, I think I would
                immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
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From: [e-mail] (Ulrich Schreglmann)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 18:26:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administration at faui45)
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Huh! Did I get this right?
Did you mean to tell if I ignore aging I won't age?

OK, I'll try.

BUT IT'D BETTER WORK, OR YOU GONNA FEEL REAL SORRY!  :-)


May the Cool be with You!

(C)OOL mcmxcii
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <x66l#[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 19:31:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>This is a relief.  Its been a while since we heard from them, and
>I was beginning to worry that the Pleiadians had forsaken us.

You haven't been following the NASA 'UFO' and Larry King Live thread.

Cary

[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)


                    |
                    |
                    |
                                    *
                                   * *
                                  *   *
                                 *     *
                                * *   * *
                               *   * *   *
                             *  *   *   *  *
                           *     *     *     *
                         *      * *   * *      *
                       * *     *   *     *    *  *
                     *   *    *     *     *  *     *
                   *     *   *     * *    * *      * *
                  *       *        *   *   * *      *   *

                  ^           ^           ^           ^
                 / \         / \         / \         / \
                 ===         ===         ===         ===

               XXXXX  XX   XX  XXXXX  XX  XX  XX  XX  XXXXX
               X       X   X   X      XXX XX  XX  XX  X
               X        XXX    X  XX  XXX XX  XX  XX  XXXXX
               X         X     X   X  XX XXX  XX  XX      X
               XXXXX     X     XXXXX  XX  XX  XXXXXX  XXXXX

    An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility
              Los Alamos National Labs

____________________________________________________________________________

My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!ames!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!cd.amdahl.com!jjs40
From: [e-mail] (John Sullivan)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Powerful, Incredible teachings (was Re: Immortality...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 20:34:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
>process.
>...
>Only one in ten of my clients is men.
>...
>BTW, I counsel 10 to 20 of these hyperventilating sessions a week and I have
>been doing it for over 15 years.
>...
>So I am starting a Pleiadian Group List for those who would like to ask
>questions, make comments and learn more about these powerful, incredible
>teachings.

Personally, I'd just like to learn how to get to spend 9-18 hours a week
in a hot tub with naked women.  That sounds like a powerful, incredible
secret to me.

--
John Sullivan, Engineer/Computer Development.   Email: [e-mail].
Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA.               Phone: [phone].
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 20:23:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
|> [e-mail] (Leon Hamilton) writes:
|>
|> > I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool
|> > alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the
|> > best.
|>
|>         Naw, my vote goes for the Mugwumps in 'Naked Lunch.'
|>

Yeah. I'll have to agree with you on that.

Let's see ALF exude 2 kinds of intoxicating substances when he likes
what you write.


|>
|> Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
[sig deleted]

--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (York H. Dobyns)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Summary: Stick to good physics in the refutations, please
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 19:49:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>A second point absolutely everybody neglects: unless the ship is obtaining
>its fuel from outer space in its path, it has to carry all its fuel on board.

1. Not "absolutely everybody" neglects it, although UFOlogists may tend
to. See, for example, the proceedings of the AAAS 1985 Annual Meeting,
which had a symposium on interstellar communication and travel.
2. The idea of picking up fuel from space en route has been kicking
around for years--it's generally called a Bussard ramjet.

>In that case, the initial mass of the ship + fuel IS EXPONENTIAL in the amount
>of time expected to spend accelerating and decelerating!!

True but not necessarily relevant. See below.

>Compared to the fuel payload of the shuttle that (say) may spend a few minutes
>in thrust, the fuel required for a ship in constant acceleration for a year
>is e^(1 year/15 minutes) ... which comes out to about e^30000, which is a
>1 followed by about, oh, about 15000 ZEROS!

Which is why a chemical-rocket starship makes about as much sense as
oars on an airplane.

>If you use nuclear propulsion, maybe you can cut this ratio down to a more
>reasonable 1 followed by 1000 zeros.  Then you have it made! :)

Define "nuclear". A NERVA-type motor (use a fission pile energy to heat
up a propellant) only gets 2-5 times the exhaust velocity of a chemical
motor, 10 at the far outside. An Orion-type motor, which is basically
setting off nuclear bombs at the back of the ship, can attain an
"exhaust" velocity orders of magnitude higher.  Changing the
mass ratio from 10^15000 to 10^1000 only requires a 15-fold increase
in the exhaust velocity. Granted, 10^1000 is still impossible--but
a 15-fold improvement over chemical propellents is only a tiny
fraction of what's available.

Serious proponents of high-speed interstellar travel most commonly
talk in terms of antimatter as a power supply. I'm NOT talking about
Star Trek style "warp drives", I'm talking about using the annihilation
energy of a little bit of antimatter added to a lot of propellant to
produce a relativistic plasma, which becomes the exhaust for a perfectly
ordinary rocket. A mix of 10% antimatter to 90% matter gives your
propellant an exhaust speed of 0.6c. Making the approximations 1g=10m/s,
1 year = 3e7 sec, c=3e8 m/s, this gives a mass ratio for one
(subjective) year of 1g acceleration of exp(3e7 * 10/1.8e8)-1 =
e^1.67 -1 = 4.3 to 1 (ratio of fuel to payload). 2 years of acceleration--
one to start, one to stop--raises the mass ratio to a difficult but
not preposterous 27 to 1. This regimen gives you a cruise speed of .76c
or so, not enough to get much benefit from time dilation, but still
plenty to cross between nearby stars in much less than one human
lifespan. Equipping a starship with this much antimatter involves
a whopping investment of energy, but one that any reasonably
developed civilization--one that has expanded into most of its solar
system and is tapping a significant fraction of its sun's total energy
output--can readily afford. (Estimated time frame for Homo Sapiens
reaching this level, barring stupidity and depending on who you talk
to, is about 500-5000 years.)

The Bussard ramjet, which has no fuel limitations, is another popular
approach to the problem; yet another is a lightsail craft, accelerated
via launching laser. This has the virtue of leaving your motor at home,
with the resources of a whole civilization to refuel and maintain it.
Of course, you then spend most of the trip braking, and may still have
to dive most of the way into the target sun's photosphere to stop.

>Therefore you can almost certainly conclude that any extraterrestial ship
>that may be present in our solar system for the purpose of exploration and
>survey did NOT get here by travelling through the intervening space.

I hope my discussion above has shown why this statement is not true. The
problem with known stardrives vis-a-vis alien visitors is not
impossibility, but the fact that all the methods outlined above, and
any close relatives, are spectacularly conspicuous in the target
system. There is no evidence of such a craft arriving in the Solar
System any time since we've been alert enough to notice it, say
1700 or so.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Malfera
From: [e-mail] (Dan M Healy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 22:14:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 12

The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...


All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives


:)




                    [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 22:14:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Tom R.
>It is unfortunate that you don't comprehend the forth dimension.
>It might be good if you listen to the words of the song The Age of
>Aquaris by the singing group called the Fifth Dimension. I believe
>they once sang it at a superbowl football game. I would answer your
>question to the best of my of my ability if I thought you were the
>least bit serious.

You know, I think this guy *IS* another Gary Stollman! Welcome to
the net!

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3
Message-ID: <q!7l=[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 22:35:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 33

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (sm) writes:
>
> On  June  15,  1989,  a  Phoenix  Project  Survey  Team  made  a
>preliminary  investigation to locate the site and origin  of  the
>mysterious  radio  transmission.  The  site  was  located  and  a
>preliminary investigation was completed.
>
Just what kind of "mysterious radio transmission" was this? There *are*
a lot of bizarre things on the shortwave: people reading strings of
seemingly random numbers, beacons that repeat the same Morse Code
letter over and over, etc. These things are officially a "mystery",
but they clearly have something to do with intelligence gathering. A
few years back, one East Bloc agent was caught Red-handed (pun very
appopriate), writing down encoded numbers being broadcast from
East Germany. (This was mentioned in "Puzzle Palace", a
book about the NSA).

So to jump to the conclusion that "space aliens" are involved just
because you heard something strange on the shortwave is, well, perhaps
a tad premature.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 22:42:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>Who is Occams, and what about his razor?

William of Ockham (or Occam, in Latin) was a medieval follower of
St. Franciscus, and his razor is a way of thinking.  It says:
"Don't unnecessarily multiply entities", that is, if you have
the choice between two theories which explain the same things
but one of which uses more hypotheses than the other, you prefer
the one with less hypotheses.

Example:  You see this posting.  If you have the choice between two
theories regarding its origin:

1. I posted it by typing the text into my keyboard,
2. I did it by changing bits telekinetically,

Occam's razor tells you to prefer 1. because for 2. you need to
assume the existence of telekinesis, whereas for 1. you only need
to assume that I have a keyboard and an account, which hardly
count as assumptions compared to the other one.

--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 00:47:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

Dear Mr. Robert Sheaffer:
Thanks you for the second flame.  It all adds to the total fire.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 01:12:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10636 alt.alien.visitors:6875 sci.skeptic:27003

Dear Wilbur:
Yes I'm real and a few people know me.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 01:20:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10637 alt.alien.visitors:6876 sci.skeptic:27005

Dear Timpson:
Thanks for the flame.  I believe you really don't want the answer to
your questain but Arasia is a lady who is a walkon.  Earth people are
sometimes contacted by spiritual or space people and the Earth person
volunteers to give up the use of their body so that the space person
can use it to do a certain job.  Arasis is the head and founder of the
group that sponsored the July 4th activity.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 01:30:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

Dear Steve:
There is one statement that you may in jest that may just be true. You
said that the people on Jupiter were in the fourth dimension. They are in
the fourth or higher dimension. The highest dimension I've ever heard
of is the 10th.  Venus is 5,000 years ahead of us in their developement
mainly because we usually wipe our civilization out every 5,000 year and
sort of start over.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Perot for President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 17:11:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:

>        This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the
>    People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the
>    1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the
>    clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the
>    job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing
>    and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your
>    country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the
>    next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the
>    likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance.


  "Hi, I'm your paper boy sir.  I'm here to fix the dishwasher!"

    "Avon Calling!  I'm here to renovate your den."

      "Fire Department, Ma'am.  I'm here to tune your lawnmower."

        "Hi, I'm a software salesman!  I'm here to fix the government!"

                                                    --Garry Trudeau


--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | [e-mail]
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 01:47:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Dear Wilbur:
You asked what a Ley Line is.  A ley line is a force that the chinese
started studying thousands of years ago when they found out that certain
areas of the Earth were suited for houses and other places were best for
animal and other more suited for growing crops.  They found that if a person
lives in the wrong stop on Earth they would have bad health. The people
in England have made great studies of ley lines and map them out.  They
many times place their churches on the same spots that were formerly
the place where pagan temples were located.  I started the collection
because I had some information on floppy disk from a person called Shaari.
I've not been able to post it yet.  Shaari's info. was about ley lines. J.W.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 02:13:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10638 alt.alien.visitors:6880 sci.skeptic:27007

Dear Don:
It's good to see you have started a new collection. May the force be
with you.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 18:38:09 GMT
References: <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz> <[e-mail]> <bcs802I918=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles
Lines: 20

In article <bcs802I918=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Mitchell) writes:
=The author of GNU EMACS, etc. is Richard M. Stallman.
=Please do not try to relate him to Gary...
=
= - Robert Mitchell
=--
=UUCP:  [e-mail]
=DDD:   408-746-8491
=USPS:  Amdahl Corp.  M/S 205,  1250 E. Arques Av,  Sunnyvale, CA 94086
=BIX:   bobmitchell


Shit!  Now _I've_ been cloned!


--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | [e-mail]
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!fsgaw1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: K2 Report/washed Up
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 02:23:14 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu


    Interesting article to say the least. Never heard of the Phoniex
Foundation but oh well. It seems mighty strange that this so called
organization, after claiming how the world governments know about and are
seeking out alien bases, is the only group able to find such a base. The US
government with all its technology, scientific brains and equipment were unable
to find this base near Quincy and _____ (bad memory). Another strange twist, if
and alien base truely wanted to stay hidden, wouldn't its use its technology to
prevent small UFO groups, and more so the World goverments from finding their
hidden bases. Maybe they underestimated our brain capacity to think. Big
Mistake.

    "Beam us up Scotty, we have found life more intellegent then
ourselves."
    "Roger Captain, just as soon as I get this damn think to work."

END TRANSMISSION------------
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MACRO CONSPIRACY ALERT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jul 92 21:13:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Administration)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> |>
|> |> Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that
|> |> this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the
|> |> real base in California.
|> |>
|>
|> Excuse me, but isn't The Phoenix Foundation the group that McGyver works
|> for on Monday Nights???
|>
|> Well, if anybody could find a UFO base, I guess it would be him.

    WOW - THIS IS ALL COMING TOGETHER. WHAT WITH ARASIA, THE PHOENIX
    PROJECT, NASA, COVERUPS, MISINFORMATION, PEROT, AND NOW MILLER BEER,
    SEVERAL TV SHOWS. ALL THESE ISOLATED INCIDENCES ARE PART OF A
    MACRO CONSPIRACY. THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO PREPARE US FOR THE
    COMING - OR COMING OUT - OF THE ALIENS! NOSTRADAMUS WAS RIGHT!
    THEY ALL WERE RIGHT! DON'T YOU SEE? IT ALL FITS TOGETHER NOW.
    I MEAN IT DID BEFORE BUT I CAN SEE IT NOW. MY GOD. BUT HOW MUCH
    TIME DO WE HAVE? ARE THEY REALLY FRIENDLY? THERE'S NOT MUCH TIME
    THEY'RE ALREADY HERE  THEY HAVE TO BE  AT LEAST SOME OF THEM
    THE REST WILL BE COMING SOON. SHIT. I GOTTA GO
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 03:39:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 26
Xref: ns-mx sci.physics:23472 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1884 alt.alien.visitors:6884
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] () writes:
>Once the
>atoms of helium get close enough to each other, the effects of the individual
>fermions in the atoms (the protons, neutrons, and electrons) become significant
>and the electron shells repel. The bosonic properties only work at a more
>macroscopic level (molecules in a liquid).
>
>So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them
>at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim...

Thanks. This is is kind of thoughtful and informed response I was seeking.

Now, can anyone think of a way by which two mass bodies can be put into states
such that the electrostatic interactions would be avoided, in effect, made
mutually invisible to one another electrodynamically, since that is what would
seem to be required to make possible interpenetration?

Incidentally, what are some responses to the second part of the original
posting, on starship-cities?

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 00:57:36 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6885 alt.conspiracy:16506

WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! I went just now to pick up Joan at her
apartment, and the REAL Joan came out to greet me, but then she went back
upstairs while I waited downstairs in my car, and then the CLONE came back
and got in the car...I left her at "her" doctors office, and came back her
here disgusted as hell to write this...I can tell from the voices, they
are distinctly different in tone...This is a mess...

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!isaac.its.rpi.edu!kasprj
From: [e-mail] (Jim Kasprzak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 04:30:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: The Big Wedge
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6886 alt.conspiracy:16511
Nntp-Posting-Host: isaac.its.rpi.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

|>  This is from
|>      [e-mail]
|> who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
                         ^^^^^^
 Oh no! Do you mean to tell us that the CIA is trying to replace you with
a clone of the opposite sex?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 04:26:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
>
>
>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives
>
>:)
>
>                    [e-mail]

Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going
on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to
be a conspiricy going on here!  :^)


Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!shaun
From: [e-mail] (Shaun Sloan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report/washed Up
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 04:54:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet )
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. Beaverton, Oregon..
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: sequent.sequent.com


Interesting article.

Using shortwave radio signals to triangulate the position of an alledged
'Alien Base'...Hmmm. Recently, I stumbled upon a huge OTH radar facility in
South-Central Oregon (I'm assuming it's OTH) while camping. This thing was
huge (maybe 2x5 miles of antenna arrays). I asked some of the the locals
about it and they said...'Oh yea, they opened that about 2 years ago but
then they closed it..Glasnost, I guess'..'It's supposed to be able to look
thousands of miles out into the pacific'..'This isn't the main one..there's
2 more, but the main facility is in California..just over the border from
Klamath' (For you non-locals, this means No. Cal.).

Over the Horizon radar uses High Frequency (a.k.a shortwave) radio waves
to detect moving objects far away (I'm no expert by any means).

I consider myself open minded on this subject and tend to think there could
be more to what we are being told (depends on who's telling the story:-)..
But when I read that a "Mysterious Shortwave Radio Transmision" points
to an "Alien Base" without any real justification.. I think that maybe
preconcieved notions come into play.

Its fun reading..though!

shaun .
s
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 05:55:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>Now, can anyone think of a way by which two mass bodies can be put into states
>such that the electrostatic interactions would be avoided, in effect, made
>mutually invisible to one another electrodynamically, since that is what would
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
Which do you mean?  Static and dynamic are antonyms!  And ES and ED
are different in the effects they produce.

>seem to be required to make possible interpenetration?
>
>---
>
>[e-mail], [e-mail]
>Jon Roland
>Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
>Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

Well if eltrostatic interactions were avoided (I'm not quite sure what
you mean, but I'll guess you mean negated or turned off) then whatever
it is will disintegrate, since ES forces are what keeps atoms, molecules
et cetera together.

So it would seem that as soon as you avoid the ES forces your objects
fall apart and then I suppose you can have them interpenetrate as much
as you want.

Cary


[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)

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Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 04:20:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27013 alt.paranormal:5367 alt.alien.visitors:6890

[e-mail] (Robert McGrath) writes:
>   _IUR_ editor Jerome Clark decided to delete several brief segments of
>   Overall's article incluting his comment: "While I disagree with Phil
>   Klass on most UFO cases, I am quite willing to give the 'bedeviller'
>   his due and acknowledge his good work on the Gulf Breeze case,
>   particularly regarding the [UFO] model and the house plans [used in
>   the model].  I recommend his _Skeptics UFO Newsletter_ to anyon
>   wanting to stay up to date on the skeptical view of Gulf Breeze and
>   UFOs."  Clark also deleted another compilmentary reference.  [_SUN_'s
>   editor understands how excruciatingly painful it would have been for
>   Clark to publish any such compliment in _IUR_.]
        Indeed. I recall that shortly after the MJ-12 documents were 'made
public,' Jerome Clark wrote an article for the Whole Earth's "Fringes of
Reason" book about saucer cover-up claims. Clark asserted that the documents
looked genuine, apart from some "frantic" attempts by "veteran UFO-phobe"
Phil Klass to discredit them.

        Well, history's had the last to say on the matter. Klass seems to
have found solid evidence that the MJ-12 documents are a forgery (and BTW,
forging top secret documents is a federal crime), and even Clark was forced
to agree that the documents weren't as convincing as they'd originally
seemed.

        At least when Clark eats crow, it happens in print.


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure.
"The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing;
DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <mad-celt.710583613@odin>
Date: 8 Jul 92 08:20:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
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[e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
>>
>>
>>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives
>>
>>:)
>>
>>                    [e-mail]

>Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going
>on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to
>be a conspiricy going on here!  :^)


>Rich

>[e-mail]


That's funny.  I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :)

But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;)


"After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time."
--
| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!sctc.com!beede
From: [e-mail] (Mike Beede)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 12:25:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: SCTC
Lines: 27
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6892 sci.skeptic:27018 alt.paranormal:5368

[e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (thomas.j.epstein) writes:
>|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>> Darn, gotta go, the aliens at the door will NOT go away untill I've at least
>> looked at their stupid Antaries vacation condos flyer.

>Yeah, I hate it when they do that.  Usually, just as you're getting in the
>shower they come around.  And, they won't take no for an answer.  Pushy little
>grey skinned buggers.

That's not nearly as irritating as when you're thinking about
something and you suddenly start thinking ``beep.....beep....beep''
and it's that stupid ``ESP call waiting'' and they start asking you
about pyramid-shaped permanent siding and ``are you thinking of making
any monoliths around the house--our representive can call for a free
estimate.''  There oughta be a law, that's what _I_ say!

    Mike the Saucer-like



--
Mike Beede         SCTC
[e-mail]     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
AKA: Mr. Spacely         [phone]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 13:26:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Mr. Sheaffer:
I believe we have met before. If my memory serves me right you are the
well dressed gentleman that I had the pleasure of interview a few months
ago.  We talked about your groups investigation of the TV preacher called
Peter Popoff.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 13:32:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

I just tried to post the Shaari information from a floppy disk but
nothing came through. I continue trying to post it and get some help from my
friends.
John Wiinston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 13:31:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>The highest dimension I've ever heard
>of is the 10th.

11th dimension.

So, now the highest dimension you ever heard of is the 11th.
You don't have to thank me.

--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 14:33:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>
>More to the point: it takes a year alone just to accelerate up to near the
>speed of light at a constant 1G.
>
>A second point absolutely everybody neglects: unless the ship is obtaining
>its fuel from outer space in its path, it has to carry all its fuel on board.
>In that case, the initial mass of the ship + fuel IS EXPONENTIAL in the amount
>of time expected to spend accelerating and decelerating!!
>
>Compared to the fuel payload of the shuttle that (say) may spend a few minutes
>in thrust, the fuel required for a ship in constant acceleration for a year
>is e^(1 year/15 minutes) ... which comes out to about e^30000, which is a
>1 followed by about, oh, about 15000 ZEROS!

    True if you use absurdly small exhaust velocities in your reaction
mass and absurdly high delta vees in the thought experiment. The Interstellar
Medium poses problems for relativistic starships, so it is quite possible
delta vees of more than ~20% to 40% of C are not reasonable for reasons other
than fuel supply.

    A Daedelus-type  system could have a Vex of about 10,000 km/s.
To reach 1% of C, the required mass ratio is about 1.35 (1.82 if you want
to slow down :). To reach 5% of C, one needs a mr of 4.5 (20.1).

    We can now conceive of systems with higher vlues of Vex. Mixing
antimatter and matter such that the Vex is close to the delta Vee gives
mrs of about 8 (for nonrelativistic flights). A am/m system with a max
vee of 20% of C could get between the average pair of stars in our
neighborhood in about a quarter of a century: not fast but within the
lifespan of the fundraisers.

    Mass ratios go way down if you can use the ISM as an energy source
or as reaction mass, of course. Ditto for externally propelled systems
like light sails or paired dense bodies. Of course, the ISM is depleted
in our vicinity: coincidence, supernova, depletion by prior interstellar
communities or *gasp* are we quarentined? Take your pick (Dibs on the sn)

>If you use nuclear propulsion, maybe you can cut this ratio down to a more
>reasonable 1 followed by 1000 zeros.  Then you have it made! :)

    Shoot your engineers. They are chosing stupid combinations of
delta vee and Vex.

>Therefore you can almost certainly conclude that any extraterrestial ship
>that may be present in our solar system for the purpose of exploration and
>survey did NOT get here by travelling through the intervening space.

    Note the proof-by-need: slow interstellar flight is 'impossible'
so wormholes must exist. Maybe the universe isn't convenient enough to
supply us with short cuts.

    I suspect we can conclude interstellar cultures are bloody wealthy
compared to us, though.

                            James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!galois!cayley!jbaez
From: [e-mail] (John C. Baez)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 14:45:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics, Cambridge, MA
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Nntp-Posting-Host: cayley

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Bear with me here. I could discuss this in terms of QED, but lose much of the
>intended audience.

True if your intended audience consists of those who know sufficiently
little physics that they'll be impressed.

It's perfectly obvious to the physicists around that you don't
understand quantum theory all that well, much less QED.  I have nothing
against uninformed speculation, and do it a lot myself, but there's no
point in trying to pretend to be erudite at the same time.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 14:16:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <mad-celt.710583613@odin> [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:
>[e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
>>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
>>>
>>>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives
>>>
>
>>Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going
>>on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to
>>be a conspiricy going on here!  :^)
>
>>Rich
>
>>[e-mail]
>
>
>That's funny.  I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :)
>
>But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;)
>
>
>"After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time."

Ack! Ack! ACK!  You would think that beings so advanced would have
better tast in beer.  How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness?

Cary

[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)

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From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 14:17:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Mr. Sheaffer:
>I believe we have met before. If my memory serves me right you are the
>well dressed gentleman that I had the pleasure of interview a few months
>ago.  We talked about your groups investigation of the TV preacher called
>Peter Popoff.
>John Winston.

What has this got to do with ley lines?

Cary

[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)


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    An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility
              Los Alamos National Labs

____________________________________________________________________________

My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 14:19:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I just tried to post the Shaari information from a floppy disk but
>nothing came through. I continue trying to post it and get some help from my
>friends.
>John Wiinston.

What the hell has this to do with ley lines?   You know that line
that starts with 'Subject:'....

Cary


[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)


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    An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility
              Los Alamos National Labs

____________________________________________________________________________

My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!yale!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 14:02:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:
>Sadly, Occam's Razor can more of a hindrance than a help in situations like
>this (don't get me wrong - I'm a great proponent of Occam's Razor).  The
>skeptics point at the Razor and the video and say "it is ice, because that is
>the simplest explanation".

No, they say "it is *probably* ice, because that is the simplest explanation".
(Or, if they are into sloppy speaking, "it is ice.")

>The skeptics official view then goes on record
>against any effort of the other side to do further follow-up work to see if
>indeed the simple explanation is not the right one (or if it is the right one
>after all).  The researchers who wish to do follow-up work get buried under
>"expert skeptic opinion", and the truth remains hidden.

You can't have everything.  Either you dismiss real things as not real
or you end up wasting your time with running after phantoms.
As it is, there are both sorts of people, so perhaps the damage is not
too large.

>To the skeptics and those who take a skeptic's word as gospel: it would be
>well to remember that simple does not equal right.

Right.  Besides: one should never take anyone's words as gospel
(not even the gospels').  Imagine a skeptic with totally uncritical
followers! (shudder)

--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims
From: [e-mail] (Emma Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 15:33:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>lives in the wrong stop on Earth they would have bad health. The people
>in England have made great studies of ley lines and map them out.  They
>many times place their churches on the same spots that were formerly
>the place where pagan temples were located.  I started the collection




Well, these areas of energy weren't always the "places where pagan
temples were located". In most cases, there had just been a standing
stone or a small shrine or a crossing of two tracks (both, supposedly
on straight ley lines themselves) or an area of high ground looking
over the surrounding countryside. The medieval english did build
their churches on these same spots because they were respected in
folklore, not only because there had been shrines there.
Also, wouldn't you want to build your church on an area of higher
ground so it could be seen widely and be nearer to God?

                EMMA.

    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|

Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 15:56:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 10

>
>Ack! Ack! ACK!  You would think that beings so advanced would have
>better tast in beer.  How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness?
                                         ^
                            Should be Chimay ale, sorry.

Cary


To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <8z7lj#[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 15:57:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>>The highest dimension I've ever heard
>>of is the 10th.
>
>11th dimension.
>
>So, now the highest dimension you ever heard of is the 11th.
>You don't have to thank me.
>
>--
>-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
>Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig!

Well add 15 more.  In some superstring theories (mostly debunked now,
I think) there are 26 dimensions.

Cary


[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)

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From: [e-mail] (Mcirvin)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <mcirvin.710611575@husc8>
Date: 8 Jul 92 16:06:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu

[e-mail] writes:

[reasonable objections deleted]

>So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them
>at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim...

Let me add something that I don't think has been brought up yet:  you don't
need to do align all the spins in a system in some special way to "make it
a boson."  A system made of an even number of spin-1/2 fermions, for
instance, has in general some superposition of different integer spins, so
it's a boson in any case.  You may be a boson right now (assuming that
there's some way of unambiguously counting your atoms).  There's nothing
special associated with this.

--
Matt McIrvin, grad student, Dept. of Physics, Harvard University
Internet: [e-mail]               Eater of cheese
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!triton.unm.edu!egates
From: [e-mail] (elinor louisea abdalla palmera hendrickson gatesickson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 16:11:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
>>
>>
>>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives
>>
>>:)
>>
>>                    [e-mail]
>
>Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going
>on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to
>be a conspiricy going on here!  :^)
>
>
>Rich
>
>[e-mail]
>
>
Hey, all the greys I know (and thats lots since NM is grand central
station for aliens) drink Guiness!

Ellie
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 17:32:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Parsifal Administration)
Organization: UM - Kansas City, Computer Science
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>         Well, history's had the last to say on the matter. Klass seems to
> have found solid evidence that the MJ-12 documents are a forgery (and BTW,
> forging top secret documents is a federal crime), and even Clark was forced
> to agree that the documents weren't as convincing as they'd originally
> seemed.

    Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file?
(Is ASCII text file redundant?)

    But this is *obviously* government misinformation!!!!   Come on,
people!  The lack of evidence should be PROOF!  Remember spontaneous
generation!  Well, the reverse is true with UFO evidence!  When it's not
there, the government has taken it!

    Okay, I'll admit, there may be *something* going on.  My best
guess is probably some sort of government experiments, and calling it an
alien UFO is just a convenient front.  By focussing the attention on the
"UFO coverup", the government can go about their business doing whatever it
is they're doing.  It's great sleight of hand!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 16:59:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mcirvin.710611575@husc8>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <mcirvin.710611575@husc8> [e-mail] (Mcirvin) writes:

>Let me add something that I don't think has been brought up yet:  you don't
>need to do align all the spins in a system in some special way to "make it
>a boson."  A system made of an even number of spin-1/2 fermions, for
>instance, has in general some superposition of different integer spins, so
>it's a boson in any case.  You may be a boson right now (assuming that
>there's some way of unambiguously counting your atoms).  There's nothing
>special associated with this.
>
>--
>Matt McIrvin, grad student, Dept. of Physics, Harvard University
>Internet: [e-mail]               Eater of cheese

I think the real point here is that quantum effects almost never manifest
themselves on a macroscopic scale.  So things like the Pauli Exclusion
Principle and Heisenburg Uncertainty don't come into play in a manner
which we can readily observe, which IMHO is a good thing.  While handy
things like electrostatic replusion (and attraction of course) do, which
IMO is also a good thing.

Cary


[e-mail] (VMS)
[e-mail] (unix)


               XXXXX  XX   XX  XXXXX  XX  XX  XX  XX  XXXXX
               X       X   X   X      XXX XX  XX  XX  X
               X        XXX    X  XX  XXX XX  XX  XX  XXXXX
               X         X     X   X  XX XXX  XX  XX      X
               XXXXX     X     XXXXX  XX  XX  XXXXXX  XXXXX

    An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility
              Los Alamos National Labs

____________________________________________________________________________

My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!RICEVM1.RICE.EDU!LINSCOT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen M. Linscott)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 17:18:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Rice University
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:

>
>Dear Steve:
>There is one statement that you may in jest that may just be true. You
>said that the people on Jupiter were in the fourth dimension. They are in
>the fourth or higher dimension. The highest dimension I've ever heard
>of is the 10th.
>That's all folks.
>John Winston.

John - Why are you limiting yourself to 10 dimensions? I have heard of
fluid dynamics programs with 100-dimension arrays.  Also, as mentioned by
another poster, I hope you appreciate the difference between jesting and
flaming!
                                          - Steve -
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 17:12:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 45

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Cary Collett) writes:
>In article <mad-celt.710583613@odin> [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
>>>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
>>>>
>>>>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives
>>>>
>>
>>>Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going
>>>on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to
>>>be a conspiricy going on here!  :^)
>>
>>>Rich
>>
>>>[e-mail]
>>
>>
>>That's funny.  I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :)
>>
>>But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;)
>>
>>
>>"After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time."
>
>Ack! Ack! ACK!  You would think that beings so advanced would have
>better tast in beer.  How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness?

It's hard to get a good stout around here. There is a bar downtown
with Guiness on draft, but it's hard to get them to go...   :^)

Chinay ale? Never tried it. Wherefore can it be found?

>Cary
>
>[e-mail] (VMS)
>[e-mail] (unix)

Rich

[e-mail]


>
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!noao!arizona.edu!hep7.physics.arizona.edu!wallin
From: [e-mail] (Tripp Wallin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 18:06:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin>
Distribution: world,local
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Nntp-Posting-Host: hep7.physics.arizona.edu

In article <mad-celt.710583613@odin>, [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:
|> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
|>
|> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
|> >>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
|> >>
|> >>
|> >>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives
|> >>
|> >>:)
|> >>
|> >>                    [e-mail]
|>
|> >Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going
|> >on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to
|> >be a conspiricy going on here!  :^)
|>
|>
|> >Rich
|>
|> >[e-mail]
|>
|>
|> That's funny.  I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :)
|>
|> But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;)
|>
|>
|> "After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time."
|> --
|> | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
|> | [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
|> | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
|> | Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |

  Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around
  the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were
  drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.).

  Tripp Wallin
  Physics and Math Undergradate and Laugher at Gary Stollman Posts
  [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Phoenix Foundation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 18:53:05 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 13
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

Pardon me, but isn't the Phoenix Foundation the
outfit MacGyver works for?...

Now we know why the duct-tape-toting bugger is
so clever...He's a professional Underground-Alien-
Base dowser!

                     :-)

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
(aboveground OR under.)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Miller Greys?..Not All of 'Em
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 19:04:31 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 11
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

I can't really say about the majority, but the
Greys I bumped into in the local redneck farmer bar
back in my hometown frowned at me most strenuously
when I referred to Budweiser as "Buttwiper".

Touchy little bastards.

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
(both before AND after they've had their ice-cold Buds!)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: K2 Report/washed Up
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 18:57:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>     Interesting article to say the least. Never heard of the Phoniex
|> Foundation but oh well. It seems mighty strange that this so called
|> organization, after claiming how the world governments know about and are
|> seeking out alien bases, is the only group able to find such a base. The US
|> government with all its technology, scientific brains and equipment were unable
|> to find this base near Quincy and _____ (bad memory). Another strange twist, if
|> and alien base truely wanted to stay hidden, wouldn't its use its technology to
|> prevent small UFO groups, and more so the World goverments from finding their
|> hidden bases. Maybe they underestimated our brain capacity to think. Big
|> Mistake.
|>
|>     "Beam us up Scotty, we have found life more intellegent then
|> ourselves."
|>     "Roger Captain, just as soon as I get this damn think to work."
|>
|> END TRANSMISSION------------
|>
|>
|>

What I can't figure out is who is doing the road paving work.
I can't see the aliens out there in hardhats paving the road, and if
the government was doing the paving, then they would presumably know
about the base.


Has anyone seen the original copy of the K2 or Dulce reports that were
posted? I would be interested to know what they look like complete with
all the pictures and maps because I am curious as to how much money they
might have spent preparing them (home desktop publishing aside.)


If it is a hoax, is it an expensive hoax?


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <mad-celt.710627082@odin>
Date: 8 Jul 92 20:24:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 21

[e-mail] (Tripp Wallin) writes:

>  Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around
>  the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were
>  drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.).

Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK.  Free beer tastes better.:)
As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding.  I
don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper).  I
like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen).  Sam Adams is good too.  I
haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers.

Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue.  I'm
curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :)

I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;)
--
| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Miller Greys?..Not All of 'Em
Message-ID: <mad-celt.710628109@odin>
Date: 8 Jul 92 20:41:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (Travis R. Stone) writes:

>I can't really say about the majority, but the
>Greys I bumped into in the local redneck farmer bar
>back in my hometown frowned at me most strenuously
>when I referred to Budweiser as "Buttwiper".

>Touchy little bastards.

>T.R. Stone
>University of Nebraska-Omaha
>Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
>(both before AND after they've had their ice-cold Buds!)

Well now they hang out at redneck farmer bars, and drinking Bud.  I guess I was
right after all. ;)

Remind me not to register in Organic Chemistry. :)
--
| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 20:22:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 20
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>    Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file?
>(Is ASCII text file redundant?)

It would be if there were no other way of encoding text. There is another
standard, EBCDIC  (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) which
is used by a few computers on the net. I have been told that this is a good
reason to use ASCII mode for ftp'ing text files. It does not seem to be
popular. There must be a conspiracy in here somewhere?

Your 'c' excercise for today is to write a EBCDIC to ASCII translator.


Rich

[e-mail]

(these opinions are not my own, they are rented, and must be returned next
weekend)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!digi!jtisdel
From: [e-mail] (J. Michael Tisdel)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 20:08:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX
Lines: 22

No one is saying that the simplest explaination is the only one.  The Razor
simply states that the explaination with the fewest assumptions is the best.

Ice:  Ice is present in the shuttle environment.
      Ice is floating near the shuttle when camera is filming.
      Ice is blasted by reaction jet.

UFO:  UFO is present in the shuttle environment
        Alien culture built UFO.
        UFO travelled to this local
        etc.
      UFO is present near shuttle when camera is filming.
      UFO moves off during filming.

The group of assumptions contained in the UFO present make it the
'choice non grata' according to the Razor.

--
 J. Michael Tisdel         | Wheels within wheels in a spiral array
 [e-mail] | A pattern so random and complex
 DSC Communications Corp.  | Time after time we lose sight of the way
 ** Standard Disclaimer ** | Our causes can't see their effects -- Rush
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb
From: [e-mail] (Karl Bridges)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 21:38:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin> <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710627082@odin>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:

>[e-mail] (Tripp Wallin) writes:

>>  Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around
>>  the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were
>>  drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.).

>Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK.  Free beer tastes better.:)
>As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding.  I
>don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper).  I
>like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen).  Sam Adams is good too.  I
>haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers.

>Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue.  I'm
>curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :)

>I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;)
>--
>| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
>| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
>| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |


 Can you tell me whether the greys had a designated driver.  Can you
imagine running off the road at lightspeed.
>| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Summary: Aliens said to prefer Chimay ale to Miller Lite 10:1, film at 11.
Keywords: Chimay ale Miller Lite greys aliens Belgium monasteries
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 22:49:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710583613@odin> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Followup-To: rec.food.drink
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 26
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6920 rec.food.drink:8324
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Cary Collett) writes:
>>In article <mad-celt.710583613@odin> [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:
>>>[e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:
>>>>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation...
[much deletia...]
>>Ack! Ack! ACK!  You would think that beings so advanced would have
>>better tast in beer.  How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness?
>
> It's hard to get a good stout around here. There is a bar downtown
> with Guiness on draft, but it's hard to get them to go...   :^)
>
> Chinay ale? Never tried it. Wherefore can it be found?

That's "Chimay" pronounced shee-MAY (accent on the second syllable).  Made
in some monastery in Belgium as I recall.  Be careful when you pour it out,
the last fermentation is done in the bottle so there is a yeast sediment.
Any good bar with imported ales should have it.  You can get it (and about
100 other brands) at the Union Jack pub in Broad Ripple, IN.  There are
probably zillions of places in California that have it.

Follow-ups to rec.food.drink only, please.
--
James Harvey    IUPUI OIT Technical Support/Networks
[e-mail]  uucp: iugate!harvey  bitnet: harvey@indyvax
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!anomaly.sbs.risc.net!kd1hz
From: [e-mail] (Michael P. Deignan (KD1HZ))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: NASA censorship!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 23:01:03 GMT
References: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz>
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6921 sci.skeptic:27047 sci.space:31658

billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:

>Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2,
>transponder 5?  That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle.
>Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff
>NASA puts together for the news media.

>Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle
>mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this.  They're
>using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty
>serious about it.

That's cuz they want to be able to cut out the scenes of massive quantities
of alien ships in Earth orbit.

MD
--
--  Dr. Michael P. Deignan (deg.pend.)      /   "Its okay dear,
--  Domain: [e-mail]     /     you can show me...
--    UUCP: ..!uunet!anomaly!kd1hz        /      I'm a Doctor..."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!digi!jtisdel
From: [e-mail] (J. Michael Tisdel)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Perot for President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 21:25:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:
>
>        This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the
>    People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the
>    1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the
>    clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the
>    job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing

Man, this is worse than the Greys running the government!  *What positon* has
Herr Perot ever made a stand on?  Oh well, forward this to a political board,
please.

>    and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your
>    country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the
>    next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the
>    likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance.
>
>
>                                - David Tiberio
>                                  6 Lodge Lane
>                                  East Setauket, New York 11733
>
[..majority removed..]
--
 J. Michael Tisdel         | Wheels within wheels in a spiral array
 [e-mail] | A pattern so random and complex
 DSC Communications Corp.  | Time after time we lose sight of the way
 ** Standard Disclaimer ** | Our causes can't see their effects -- Rush
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 00:57:36 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6923 alt.conspiracy:16550

WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! Gary came to pick me (Joan) up at my appartment
and I came out to great him.  I had to go back up to my place to get a
tampon and when I went back down Gary had been replace with a CLONE. I went
with him anyway and had a great time.  Gary (the real one) is a drag and his
dick is all cut up.  The CLONE is a real man and his dick isn't all in
ribbons. This is a mess...

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Summary: glad you asked
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 23:55:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joseph Raquepas) writes:
> Hey, what happened to all of those wonderfull gray recipes?
> Things were just starting to get interesting in this group...
> and then they stopped.

I had layed out a huge "landing/welcome home boys" barbeque for
the little bastards, er, um humanoids with two grays on the spit.
I left a large sign on the ground stating that these were chickens
I was 'cuing. A couple saucers came in the area to check it out
but they wouldn't land. I was even yelling, "comon guys, these are
CHICKENS".
I ended eating them myself, hrummph, some partiers, fat chance I'll
have another 'cue and invite them!


[here's the barby recipe-hmmmmm]
I marinated the little bastards('cause of the tough skin)overnight
in lemon, garlic, vegetable oil, and red table wine(just a sconch).
Ran the pit spike through their ass and out the little nostrils,
put the motor on slow turn and kept 'em about 3 feet from the coals.
After three hours of this(don't forget to refresh the coals), I applied
Sammy Sauce(tm) to their much cooked and delightfully smelling bodies.
Let the little bastards cook another half hour or so with the Sammy
Sauce, and walla. The meat should be tender enough to pluck off without
a knife. Serves 15 (damn spaceship).

Bone appetite'

P.S. I don't know what became of that nest of grays that was
around my area, but I haven't seen them in awhile. I had to use
the ones I had left in the freezer. I was hoping some would land
for the barbeque:-)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 10:58:54 GMT
References: <q!7l=[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) 07 Jul 92 22:35:26 types--
>So to jump to the conclusion that space aliens are involved just because
>you heard something strange on the shortwave is well perhaps a tad
>premature

That's about the 1st thing I wondered when I read the post.no more was
seen about any characteristics of the transmissions.No frequencies given
or if others had heard & or were told of them or indeed if they were
directly related to Pilot peak.
As for the aptly named Pilot Peak who has climbed the area.What about
historic records & radio monitoring?.

On radio monitoring those number stations are an interesting rebuttal
to the 3 man leak posit.
Or does Sheaffer have the good oil on who is responsible for these efforts
& where.

BTW-WHo is Larry Eckert?.

**********************************************8
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?
******************************************************************************
************************************************************8
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Jones,AMJ1,)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 22:48:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Lines: 22
Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com

Rich Payne writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>    Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file?
>>(Is ASCII text file redundant?)
>
>It would be if there were no other way of encoding text. There is another
>standard, EBCDIC  (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) which
>is used by a few computers on the net. I have been told that this is a good
>reason to use ASCII mode for ftp'ing text files. It does not seem to be
>popular. There must be a conspiracy in here somewhere?
>
>Your 'c' excercise for today is to write a EBCDIC to ASCII translator.
>

But the phrase "ASCII text" *is* redundant - "text" doesn't always imply "ASCII",
but "ASCII" does imply "text".

---
sincerely,
Alan Jones  /  Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX  /  email=[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 00:22:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 10

Dear Cary:
You of course know that me talking to Robert Sheaffer about my interview
has nothing to do with Ley lines.  Mr. Sheaffer has been good enough to
throw two flames at me so far about my identity and I was pointing out to
him that I had interviewed and vidioed him for about 30 minutes a few
months ago.  I'll have to admit it had slipped my mind too.  Mr. Sheaffer
is a very good person to interview and he did conduct himself well. I'll
have to admit that I do agree with what his group is doing.
That's all folks.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 00:29:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Steve:
Yes I will admit that was a mild responce.
Thanks
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 00:31:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <8z7lj#[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

Dear Cary:
I think you making fun of me.  Are you a girl or boy.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 00:34:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Kring:
The first teller of a story never has a chance.  The 11th dimensiion.
Well I never.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!alberta!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!rutkows
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles in North America
Summary: List of 1992 North American UGMs, including Crop Circles
Keywords: crop, circles, UGMs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 21:10:56 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 71

Things were getting a bit silly in this newsgroup, so I thought I would
change the thread somewhat.  Let's see what the skeptics and believers
have to say about the following:


       1992 North American Crop Circles and/or UGMs
           Reported to NAICCR as of 8 July 1992

920426    Jonesboro, Georgia
-  a "formation" of crop circles, "exactly" like those found in
1991 in the same location, was discovered.
Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede

9204??           , New Hampshire
-  UGMs were found following a small local flap of UFO reports.
Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede

920506    near Edmonton, Alberta
-  a "space cookie" UGM was discovered in a meadow.  It is a
perfect circle, 6 metres in diameter. Its depth varies from 5 cm
to 31 cm.  Grass is growing straight up both inside and outside
the circle.  No tracks were found leading to the area.  The UGM
is not a sinkhole.
Source: Gordon Kijek

9205??    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
-  two crop circles were found in a cornfield just north of the
Philadelphia city limits.  Soil samples taken by a UFO
investigator "showed no irregularities".
Source: Steve Bernheisel on FIDONET

920627    Raeford, North Carolina
-  a circle of flattened grass was found in a hay field following
a CE2 UFO sighting.  A loud noise, "like a freight train", was
heard, and two witnesses ran to look out their front door.  A
object "the size of a swimming pool", "like orange windows lla
around it", was in a field about 300 feet away from their house.
When they went to call other witnesses, the object disappeared.
Source: Patrick Kirol on FIDONET

9206??               , Massachusetts
-  a small area of flattened cattails was found in a marsh close
to a major highway and reported as a crop circle.
Source: Tom Randolph on DEC COM via INTERNET

920701    St. Adolphe, Manitoba
-  nine "horseshoe-shaped" patches of flattened grass were found
on either side of a brook in a Winnipeg suburb. Because of rece
storms and heavy rainfall, lodging was thought to be the cause
Source: Guy Westcott; NAICCR

920705    Hobbema, Alberta
-  two ovals of flattened barley were found in a field after
unusual lights were observed descending to the ground.  The
largest UGM has a major axis of 47 feet.  The crop is pushed away
uniformly from the centers of the patches, but the centers are
"clumped", like breaking waves.  Barley inside the circles is
"white", and devoid of colour.
Source: Gord Kijek

*****************************************************************

OK, these are the facts.  What are the interpretations?

(no marks awarded for discovering typos)


--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
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From: [e-mail] (ERICK TODD COLBERT)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 23:58:54 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (ERICK TODD COLBERT)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 17
Originator: [e-mail]


Just a note.

There is a Role Playing Game out there called Rifts.  It discusses Ley-Lines
in a quite interresting way.

While I am not one who believes RPG's are for real, I DO want to know where
they got some of their information.

Does anyone know of a book called "Bridge to Infinity?"


I have heard it's "banned" in the US, but is available through a small company
under a different name.

This book refered to Ley Lines and their relationship to the sightings of
"UFO's"
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report/washed Up
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 01:32:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 9

I've never heard of the Pheonix Foundation (Mcgyver excluded).  I do know
that F-4's were never stationed at Beal (Spell) AFB.  The F-4's could
possibly have came from Castle AFB which is in central California.  I question
the credibility of the supposed Air Force personel who verified that the
F-4's came from Beal.  However, the report was a good read :)

Joseph A. Citro III at UNO
[e-mail]
(WHO WILL PROBABLY NEVER COME UP WITH A SIGNATURE)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 01:54:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Well Emma:
It sounds like you have a little of the truth there.  I'll say a little
more later on what your had to say.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 01:57:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

Dear Carey: This has a lot to do with Ley Lines.  We'll finally get to
the subject but I don't know when.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 02:08:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 4

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
> What the hell is a ley line, and who started that post?!
>
Princess Leya line of clothing, aka, ley line.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 02:38:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6937 alt.conspiracy:16556

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
> WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! I went just now to pick up Joan at her
> apartment, and the REAL Joan came out to greet me, but then she went back
> upstairs while I waited downstairs in my car, and then the CLONE came back
> and got in the car...I left her at "her" doctors office, and came back her
> here disgusted as hell to write this...I can tell from the voices, they
> are distinctly different in tone...This is a mess...
>
Damn, how do maintain sanity!

I have two hampsters and lately they have been acting weird. I
mean, they eat, drink and stare at me, and they are always silent
they never say anything.
These two are much different than the other? two i had. Could
they be walkins?

Need to know, can't sleep nights.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!milton.u.washington.edu!cruiser1
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Summary: Thoughts on what is going on, why, and what we should do about it.
Keywords: Earth Changes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 06:18:09 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 306
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10659 alt.alien.visitors:6938 alt.paranormal:5374

--

One of the most talked about issues in the paranormal fields, due to
it's obvious massive ramifications, and unfortunately, one of the most
anxiety provoking topics, deals with what is known as the "Earth
Changes". In general, the Earth Changes refer to events, often
catastrophic, that are going to happen in a trial period before a new
era of long lasting peace and prosperity comes to Earth. Such events
are said to include things like major earthquakes, pole shifts,
extraterrestrial landings, large asteroids, major land areas sinking
beneath the sea, photon belts, governmental upheaval, dimensional
shifts, and numerous other things.

Unfortunately, various spiritual groups, channeled entities, etc,
conflict with each other as to what events are going to happen and
when. And, since most people want to come though these great Changes
in one piece, and not fall victim to various bad things that is said
can befall one, many feel anxiety or fear about what's going to really
happen at what time, and what they should do about it. Not all the
things that are alleged to happen actually will, of course; and some
are apparently feeding off the fear that people have in this area. One
only needs to look at alleged events that never came to pass, such as
the end of the world being predicted every few years by a particular
Fundamentalist group, things like the "88 reasons why the Rapture will
happen in 1988", people in Montana who predicted nuclear war would
occur a few years ago, or some followers of a certain channeled entity
who built underground shelters a long time ago to protect them from
the "imminent invasion of the Lizzies", and so on, to see that there
are scams out there and not everything that one hears in this matter
is true. Nevertheless, most people fell that "something" major is
going to happen within the next few decades. Therefore, I created this
file as an attempt to describe what is going on, why it's happening,
and what one should do about it, later getting on into the speculation
about specific events and dates, although I must stress that these are
just my views and one should always consult their own Inner Guidance.

There is no doubt that Earth has come under great changes in the
recent past. The world population is now at 5.5 billion people and has
been increasing at a virtual exponential rate. Growth in this manner
can't continue forever. Our technology has grown by an enormous factor
in just this century. At the turn of the century the automobile and
airplane hadn't been invented yet; now we are walking on the Moon and
planning trips to Mars. One can only guess what will happen in the
next 100 years. Only a short time ago, this was a planet divided
between East and West, between Communism and Capitalism, in wars
encompassing the world, in which just a button press could result in
nuclear annihilation. Now, after massive political and social changes,
communism has melted away, and the rest of the world is nearing a
state of a new order in the world (which, depending on how it's
viewed, can either manifest as a Government of the People or the
People's Government).

Looking at how the planet has been changing in the last few decades,
one can see many positive and negative things. Just 20 years or so
ago, about the worst problem facing our schools was people chewing gum
and cutting in line. Now we have teen pregnancies, suicides, drug
dealers, psychos of all kinds, people bringing guns to school, and so
on. Our environment has fallen victim to overdevelopment, greed, and
pollution; but yet many now realize the interrelationship of all
species, and people and especially the younger generation are working
to help the environment in a way unsurpassed before. Not long ago, the
majority of Americans were immersed in a life of materialism, but
after the revolutionary changes in the 1960's and the spread of the
New Age movement in the late 1980's, many now realize a spiritual side
to life. In short, the energies on our planet are rapidly speeding up,
and both positive and negative manifestations seem to be increasing.

It is this fact, this forming polarity, that is the main basis for the
Earth Changes that seem to need to happen. In order words, there is a
split forming in our population between people who are choosing a life
of spirit, love, and understanding, and those who choose materialism,
duality, and separateness. As the groups grow apart and separate in
vibration, eventually a final split will be made and we will either
literally or figuratively continue our evolution on two separate
planes or worlds.

An analogy of a college university fits this situation well. Each of
us enter the school at a different quarter or year, with the ultimate
goal of experiencing a full education. We all take various classes in
various quarters. There are advanced students and lesser students, the
advanced students being further along because they either work harder
or because they enrolled earlier. Every year or so, there is a
"graduation day", where those students who have obtained enough
credits get to leave the school, to go on to earn a higher degree,
stay and teach, or, having finished their education, enter the work
force and do their real work they have trained to do.

Similarly, in a macrocosmic sense, we souls enter this school on Earth
in order to gain a full experience of the physical plane of Creation.
We take on various incarnations (quarters) with various karmic debts
to pay and goals to fulfill (classes). There are advanced souls and
lesser souls, the lesser souls either not trying as hard (goofing off
in class) or else they are younger and have less experience
(Freshmen). Every few thousand years or so, there is a "gateway"
(graduation day) where those who have advanced sufficiently may go on
to a higher world, either to seek still further soul growth in a more
advanced environment, to return back to a lower world to serve by
teaching others, or, having reached their ultimate "enlightenment", do
the work that they trained their soul for during all this time.

The consensus seems to be that such a gateway is rapidly approaching,
due to reasons presented earlier. There is talk of things such as a
new era, the Aquarian Age, Earth entering the "fourth dimension", 1000
years of Peace, and so on. Those who don't go on will either stay on
Earth while the rest go on to a higher world, or will be sent to
another world whose vibratory level is where our planet is now (e.g.
back to the beginning of the Piscean age, etc) while the rest remain
on Earth which then enters a new higher state of being. (One further
thing I might add is that after graduation in a college, summer
vacation arrives, a period where one can put off their formal
education, or rather, continue it in a more enjoyable way!)
Incidentally, Solara and the Star-Borne 11:11 Doorway people talk
about an earlier, similar gateway to non-dualistic realms a few
millenia ago, through which those who were ready entered at that time.

It is important for one not to get worried about whether they are
going on or staying behind. Remember, some of us have just entered the
human kingdom, and therefore going on before we have gained our full
education would be counterproductive both to our own education and to
those we would be joining (like having 1st graders in a 12th grade
class). There is therefore nothing "bad" with staying behind or in
being a less evolved "darker" soul, since they are simply younger in
evolution. That evil person you see now may very well have been
farther along than you were, when you were his age, and by rapidly
accruing and dealing with bad karma through his actions, he may very
well rapidly grow and be at a higher level than you, when his soul has
reached the age yours is at now! Note also that some will choose to
stay behind in order to not only finish their "education", but to get
a more thorough education, e.g. a double degree. Remember, high school
Juniors now will be Seniors next year, the most advanced of the lower
school, while this year's Seniors, although entering college, will be
the Freshmen of the higher school! Finally, although many may not
realize it themselves, a significant number of people are here to
serve, having descended to teach and help others ascend more quickly,
and to send love to Earth to help her through her transition. And a
certain number of the most advanced souls may still remain behind
after the Changes to continue to help those in the 3D world. The state
of loving the lower worlds, and being willing to be in them, is a
characteristic of those of the higher worlds!

Another important thing to remember is not to fall into the state of
being elitist. Elitism is thinking of oneself as being "better" than
others, or as thinking of yourself as an overly spiritual being at a
much higher level than those lowly people who aren't going to go on to
higher realms. Too often one can see otherwise loving people attack
those who they perceive as lower, or else condescend to them by not so
quietly pointing out to the world that they are at their "lower" level
and someday after lots of pain and bad karma they will finally wake
up. Remember, we are all One! And as the old saying goes, how we treat
others, even our enemies, is how we think of our Creator, for we are
all part of His body. The goal on the other side is to be beyond
elitism, dualism, and other forms of separateness, where each
individual can relate to others with harmony. As my friend Arasia of
Antahkarana put it at a recent meeting: "When the ETs land, many of us
could be surprised at how many Fundamentalist Christians *are* aboard
the ships, and at how many New Agers *won't* be taken aboard!"

There is only one thing that will determine how the Earth Changes will
affect one: *vibration*. If there is any one thing you remember from
this article, remember that last sentence! The rate of one's personal
vibration will determine who stays and who has the option of going on.
And when concerning yourself with spiritual growth or when seeking to
raise your vibration, there are only two things one need do:
Unconditionally Love, and the corollary premise of letting go of fear.
That's all; so simple to learn, often so hard to do! This of course
includes letting go of the fear of whether you *are* being
unconditionally loving or not, and worries about whether or not the
Earth Changes will be kind to you. Remember that one doesn't have to
be an Ascended Master to graduate; as a friend put it, if one simply
makes the *choice* of the path of Love over fear and separateness,
that combined with any effort to actualize this, will be enough for
one to painlessly go through Mother Earth's birthing process.

People sometimes concern themselves with worrying about external
changes as opposed to inner changes. For example, in trying to
determine what parts of the planet are the "safe-areas", and won't
fall into the ocean, be destroyed by earthquakes, etc, so they can
move there. So many sources differ on this that you can't guarantee
anything, and all that is accomplished is that one increases their
anxiety and fear and thereby lowers their vibration. As Arasia put it:
"Too often people spend so much time trying to find out *what* is
going to happen and *when* it going to happen, that they are not
actually *preparing* for it!" Remember, nothing will happen to you or
anyone else if it is not in their karma; everything happens according
to God's perfect will. Remember this if you choose to concern yourself
with the "negative" aspects of the Earth Changes, such as alien
invasions as opposed to friendly alien landings, etc. Remember that we
create our own reality, and therefore, what we desire for others tends
to happen to ourself by the law of attraction. So, if you want
something, give it to others. If you want the environment to be kind
to you during the Changes, be kind to the environment now! If one is
hostile to others or to the Earth's environment, then by karmic law,
can one expect to emerge from some earthquake unscathed?

Again, it's important not to fear whatever may happen. Even if one is
in a so-called "unsafe" area, that isn't necessarily bad. Just as
Masters sometimes descend to Earth to help us out, some Light Workers
are specifically called to lower vibrational areas so that they can do
useful work there. As for what happens when the earthquakes and such
hit the unsafe area, a few possibilities come to mind: (1) By karma
one won't get hurt due to their high vibration. (2) Advancing beings
such as extraterrestrials will intervene by "beaming up" most people
during the worst of the Changes. (There *are* ships out there that can
carry millions of people on board.) (3) Similar to the first two, one
will learn or be assisted to levitate or teleport or something into
protected realms. (4) Or finally, one will get killed anyway. Remember
that death itself isn't necessarily a bad outcome, since we'll all be
back, although of course it should be avoided if one has say in the
matter. Many think that all the lower vibratory people will leave or
die, but it could be the other way around if the New Age Earth is
somewhere else. The actions of the Zeta Reticulan Grey aliens, in
their creation of a Hybrid race that is the cross of our two species,
in these important times, comes to mind. I suggested in an earlier
article that some of us may incarnate in Hybrid bodies in future
incarnations, and if that is so, we can't enter a Hybrid body until we
leave our Human one. (Although the process would probably be more
close to "ascending"; nevertheless, I just wanted to point out that
although one should still take action if they percieve it to be in
their best interest, what might at first appear to be bad isn't
necessarily so.)

A confession: It is possible that nothing significant at all will
happen (in the physical sense, e.g. alien landings, pole shifts, etc),
at least not for a very long while, and we should at least be
*willing* to accept this option should it turn out to be the truth.
Remember, we can't wait around for someone to come and save us and our
planet - we have to be willing to do it all ourselves! I've heard
various extraterrestrial races have the ability to completely repair
our environment in a matter of days, but doing so wouldn't help us
learn anything, and on the contrary would make us dependent on them.
However, it is my opinion, and most of the reliable sources I know
agree, that major things will happen in the next decade. Heck, major
things have happened in the past decade! A friend of mind said that
ultimately only God knows when, and the Biblical quote that the Day of
the Lord will come like a thief in the night, when no one is expecting
it, comes to mind. He even suggested that the actual itinerary of
events is generally kept hidden from the public for a reason; that
otherwise, we would all wait until the last year or month before
getting our act together or starting the work we were meant to do!

As for the subject of the actual dates when various changes will
happen, I again must stress that there are many differences in this
area. Nevertheless, I have noticed various different not unreliable
sources turning up more or less the same things. The varied changes
seem to fall into five time spans: (1) Some awakening or turning point
is to happen around 1987 or so. This year already passed of course,
and was marked by the Harmonic Convergence, the year they said we
finally reversed our trends toward self-destruction, the spread of the
New Age movement, and other things. (2) Some shift or opening is to
occur around 1992. This of course is right where we are now. We had
the opening of the 11:11 Doorway earlier this year. This is also the
year of the 500th anniversary of the White Man's arrival in the New
World. And as the Mayan/Incan prophecies state, after the White Man's
arrival there would be a period of "500 years of spiritual darkness",
before their calendar simply "ends" and a new era of peace begins.
It's said that this date is the week of *July 26, 1992*! It will be
interesting to see whatever happens then. I know of at least three
different sources who tell of various events, from a dimensional Time
Shift to Earth entering a photon belt. Columbus Day falls later this
year, in October. (3) Some upheaval or transformation will happen
around 2001 (or 1997, which is another date I've seen a couple of
times, e.g. in the Bashar material.) This could be some sort of a
governmental collapse or restructuring, or a major breakthrough in
achieving peace on Earth. The Middle East area is often mentioned.
Some say a pole shift will happen around this time (although for what
purpose I don't know; i.e. how does a pole shift help us enter higher
realms, unless it is connected to other things.) (4) 2012 or so seems
to mark the major changes. This year pops up often. The 11:11 Doorway
closes on Dec 31, 2011, and various other cycles end near this time.
Perhaps this date will mark major land mass changes, or the time Earth
merges into the fourth dimension. (5) Finally 2054 or so is the latest
date one tends to find in this business. To this year is sometimes
attributed the date of the 25000 year Equinox, and at this point, all
the major Changes are said to be done and Earth is in its new era.

It's my opinion that most of the above dates are variable, and that
the various Changes will happen, either individually or collectively,
when we are ready for them. Perhaps the extraterrestrials won't
formally land until we make an effort to invite them, enough of us
believe in them, or until we have developed spiritually or technically
to their level. Remember that dates and events are not fated, and can
change. It's said that due to the prayers and love many have been
giving out since 1987, that many of the original cataclysms scheduled
now no longer will take place, because there is no need for them any
more! Perhaps it is possible there will be no separation of Earth's
population at all, and we will all ascend together! This idea isn't so
far fetched if one realizes the Unity and perfection of all things,
and that this very concept forms the basis of the new world. Above all
remember that Earth Changes are not about events happening to us, but
rather about us making things happen on Earth! It is our choice as to
what we desire our future reality to be. In a sense, each one of us
will be creating our own individual future world reality according to
our dreams and efforts, so be sure to choose one you like! Connect
with your Higher Self, pick the absolute highest thought you can and
more, ensoul it with Love, and make an effort to offer it to Creaton.
Then sit back in Joy and Peace and watch the Earth Change Fireworks!!!

--

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|    Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen    |    [e-mail].    |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 05:35:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Cary:
>You of course know that me talking to Robert Sheaffer about my interview
>has nothing to do with Ley lines.  Mr. Sheaffer has been good enough to
>throw two flames at me so far about my identity and I was pointing out to
>him that I had interviewed and vidioed him for about 30 minutes a few
>months ago.  I'll have to admit it had slipped my mind too.  Mr. Sheaffer
>is a very good person to interview and he did conduct himself well. I'll
>have to admit that I do agree with what his group is doing.
>That's all folks.
>John Winston.

John,

    I have not seen you flamed yet. Believe me, you'll know when
you have been flamed. A flame is a personal attack.

    It is not a flame to make fun of something. It is not a flame
till it gets personal.

    And it is a bit rude to claim that someone has been flaming
you, when they have not been. That you are rather new to the net is
rather obvious. But it is normally wise to use terms new to you with
care. Despite several posted warnings, you continue to misuse the term
"flame". If you expect to be taken seriously, you are must first get
this simple thing right. If you cannot understand this, why should
anyone believe that you have gotten anything else right?

    If is not a flame to poke fun at what you have posted. It may
be a flame to poke fun at you.


Rich

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: K2 Report - conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 06:33:53 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu

You FORGOT the frigging camera?????!!!!!!!!
Estiercol de toro.
This crap stinks more than a week old carp.

You FORGOT the camera?
I wave my willie in the general direction of your ancestors.

You actually FORGOT the camera, as in... it slipped your mind... or...
<boink> I coulda had a V8?
It is to laugh.

Thomas Freebairn    * God not only plays dice with the universe
            * He cheats at poker.
                Space Rat
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!selway.umt.edu!cs000rdw
From: [e-mail] (Richard D Warner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: DON'T EAT GREYS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 09:39:35 GMT
Organization: University of Montana
Lines: 15


    Like most of you, I grew up a grey and potato man, but not anymore.
My cousin Billy Bob said that "those greasy greys aint good to eat" and it's
true.  I had my cholestrol checked last month and it was 280.
    Also, you'll never believe it, but I think you can make money with
greys.  One of mine got out and got into my nephews electronics stuff, and
made just a heck of a nice multiband radio before I found him.  I was so
impressed, I thought I'd pal around with him some, and make him a part of
the family sort of.  I tried to take him on a run with the car, but there
was no way to get him to run.  Those greys just aren't very stout.  Finally
I got so frustrated I just let the dawgs have him.  After that, I did get
another one to run, though.  Darn thing keeled over dead after two miles
though.

Rich
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 23:19:02 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 22


 > Dear Michael:
 > I read all of the information that you posted and appreciated your work
 > and the work of the The Phoenix Report but I don't believe it.  It
 > doesn't
 > add up to me and I won't explain why. Your may be right and I'm wrong.
 > I hope I am wrong in this case.
 > That's all folks.
 > John Winston.

First, that was not my work, nor did I have anything to do with it.  Someone
uploaded that material to ParaNet and I simply reposted it with permission.  I
have found numerous problems with it myself and, although I do not necessarily
believe that something is happening at Dulce, I think that the Phoenix
material is just more disinformation.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 23:25:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 26


 > Didn't the Bill Moore get tangled up in this situation? Didn't this
 > whole
 > episode cause Paul Bennewitz to have a nervous breakdown? Do you have
 > any
 > further documentation on this aspect of the investigation? I for one
 > would
 > like to find out where some (if not all) of the disinformation came
 > from.Are there any other investigations "The Phoenix Project is working
 > on
 > ?

Yes.  Paul Bennewitz did have some psychological problems as a result of the
disinformation that Moore and his friends were feeding Paul, but the Dulce
thing has never been proven, although that was the subject of the information
that they were giving to Paul as part of the disinformation.  In that event, I
would be suspicious as to the validity of anything being located at Dulce.  It
is true that there have been UFO sightings at Dulce and there have been cattle
mutilations, but that doesn't prove the existence of an underground base.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: K2 And The Phoenix Project
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jul 92 23:36:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 110


 * Forwarded from "Ask UFO Magazine"
 * Originally from David Brune
 * Originally dated 07-06-92 16:11

All,

As section leader of a UFO area on CompuServe, when we read the K2 report
from the Phoenix project we did not quite know how to take it.  Was this
another attempt at disinformation, a way to make a few bucks by getting you
to buy their printed paper, or was it for real.  So we decided to find out.

A few members of my section got together and over this 4th of July holiday
weekend decided to check things out.  What they found you may find
interesting.  This was in no way a complete check of the Phoenix groups
claims, but interesting nonetheless.  We are planning further expeditions to
the K2 area in the near future and I will keep all advises as to what we find,
since it is of importance to us all.

If you have any questions of comments about this report, please forward them
to me, and if you have CompuServe access may I suggest checking out the New
Age Forum and the UFOlogy/Contacts section.

David Brune [70671,2063 CIS]

*****************************************************************************

David,

Well, I made it back from Pilot Mountain!  What a beautiful area.  It is remote
and would be a good spot to try and conceal something but I saw no evidence to
support the claims of the Phoenix report.  Keep in mind that I was there for
only a short time (1 1/2 days) and I did not have the actual K2 report with
maps and descriptions of where EXACTLY the LZs, base, and entrances were
suppose to be.  When I do get the report I will more than likely make another
trip out there just to satisfy my curiousity and keep this thing from growing
into something it probably isn't.

I arrived in Quincy on Saturday at about 5:30am.  I then proceeded into the
Plumas Nat'l Forest via the Quincy-La Porte Road.  For the next five hours I
just drove around the dirt roads checking things out.  There is road
construction in progress complete with earth movers, bulldozers, graters, and
dump trucks.  It was a holiday so no constuction was going ons.  The existing
dirt roads were eroded, and narrow in places so, IMHO, the construction was not
suspect.  This area skirts the Feather River and some of its off-shoots which
is popular amoung trout fisherman.  That may be one reason the roads are being
repaired.  Also, it appeared that logging was prevelant in the area.  Since so
much logging in various areas thoughout CA has been restricted I can see
logging interests putting in $$ to access areas where they are allowed to
harvest, which is what I think is happening.

The roads are poorly marked and thus confusing to get around on.  I looked for
most of that morning around the Pilot Peak area for the access road leading up
to the lookout station but could not find it.  It is probably a four wheel
drive type road and thus not evident to the passer by, which I'm sure I did
several times.  The tower placement on top of the mtn. is perfect. It's up
above everything and looks to offer a good view.  I decided to hike up there.

The Pacific Crest Trail passes through the area and skirts along the side of
Pilot Peak.  The trail head is well marked at PP's base so I took it.  The
trail was easy to follow and I took it up to the ridge where I cut off to get
to the lookout station. The last few hundred yards were VERY steep and strewn
with loose flagstone and gravel.  On my approach I could hear voices (kids) and
then see some young people in the tower.  They had left by the time I got to
the tower.  It took three hours to get there and the view alone was worth it.
The station is abandoned and from markings in the cement appears to have been
constucted in 1976.  It is very well built and offers an EXCELLENT view, 360
degrees, of the surrounding area.  I can't imagine a better way to watch the
area then in that tower.  Once up there I could see a dirt road coming up the
mtn and stopping about 100 yards down slope.  The last part up to the tower is
'feet only.'  I seriously considered going down the road to find where it cuts
off from the main road below but daylight was running out. I poked around a bit
more, took some pictures and headed back down to the trail I had come up on.

When I got back I ate and by then it was dark so I drove out to a vista point
and watched the area for whatever.  During the night I drove to different
points of view...and saw nothing unusual. The next morning I slept a bit then
hiked around PP area a bit more.

From my cursory examination of the area I could not support the fantastic
claims made by The Phoenix Group.  However, I did not have a magnetometer,
geiger counter, or any other sofisticated equipment.  All I could do was
observe the area through an average persons eyes.  I did that and saw nothing
except a beautifully remote area.

The one odd thing I did see was at the Ranger Station in Quincy.  As I entered
the parking lot there's a sign showing visitors where to park, employees
parking, and one that reads "F.S. Heliport NASA."  I drove ....

over to the entrance to the "heliport" which had an open gate and a sign that
read--"No Trespassing  $500 and/or 6 months  Air Operations Restricted Area."
I could not see beyond the gate because of the forest and slope of the hill.  I
wasn't sure if they enforced this notice but didn't want to find out right
then.  Why would NASA have a heliport way out there?  That I don't know and
couldn't find anyone to ask.

I've been too long winded already...I will get the K2 Report, find specific
locations to search and look things over again.  Any suggestions that would
enhance my efforts would be appreciated.

                                                 --Jason

END-OF-REPORT

=-=-=-=-=

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles in North America
Keywords: crop, circles, UGMs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 14:01:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski) writes:

>Things were getting a bit silly in this newsgroup, so I thought I would
>change the thread somewhat.  Let's see what the skeptics and believers
>have to say about the following:


>       1992 North American Crop Circles and/or UGMs
>           Reported to NAICCR as of 8 July 1992

>920426    Jonesboro, Georgia
>-  a "formation" of crop circles, "exactly" like those found in
>1991 in the same location, was discovered.
>Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede

I've tried contacting the original Jonesboro source on this, but have been
unsuccessful.  I'll try again and see what I can find out.
--

Anson Kennedy                                                   [e-mail]
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

"If you don't watch the violence,    \           "If I had been the Virgin Mary,
you'll never get desensitized to it."  \                I would have said 'No.'"
-Bart Simpson                            \  -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Oberg's "Explanation for STS-48 UFO"
Message-ID: <0w8l6h=[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 14:09:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 81
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27074 alt.alien.visitors:6946



        NOTE OF INTEREST                                  June 28,   1992

        By: James Oberg, Rt 2 Box 35O, Dickinson, Texas 77539

        Subject:  Actual explanation for the notorious STS-48  "UFOs"  on
        videotape

        After  the "HardCopy" interview with Don Ecker (June 5),  and  my
        appearance with him on "Larry King Live" June 26, I've gotten  an
        appreciation  of where this UFO connection has come from. When  I
        saw  the original incoherent letters from D. Ratsch, I  dismissed
        it as complete looney-tunes, but subsequently I've found out what
        fundamental misunderstanding and ignorance has led to the fuss.

        Lights on the shuttle TV cameras can be many things, and on these
        scenes in question they are stars, cities, lens spots, and nearby
        shuttle-generated   debris  (they  are  rarely  if   ever   other
        satellites).  Especially with the low-light cameras used for  the
        nighttime  mesoscale lightning surveys, the horizon is  deceptive
        because  the glowing line is the airglow and the actual  edge  of
        the  earth is somewhat below it. With poor contrast;  this  means
        that stars can cross the glowing "horizon" and still be visible a
        bit further before actually setting.

        There  are  more than  50  sources  of ice on the shuttle, plus a
        steady source of debris such as insulation flakes from inside the
        payload bay. This includes 38 primary RCS jets and 6 vernier jets
        (which   burn  the  hypergolic  [self-igniting]  propellants   of
        nitrogen  tetroxide  and hydrazine), an air dump  line,  a  waste
        water  dump line, a supply water dump line, two fuel  cell  purge
        lines  (the  hydrogen  one is always leaking  water),  two  flash
        evaporators,  a  water spray boiler, and so forth.  No  surprise,
        then,  that floating debris near the shuttle is a  common  sight.
        The  particles  usually (not always) spin, and depending  on  the
        axis  of  spin they may or may not flash, and  depending  on  the
        speed  of spin their flicker may or may not be picked up  by  the
        camera CCD scanner.

        The  RCS jets usually fire in 80-millisecond pulses to  keep  the
        shuttle  pointed in a desired direction, under autopilot  control
        (usually once every few minutes). These jets may flash when  they
        ignite  if the mixture ratio is not quite right. Propellant  also
        tends  to  seep  out the feed lines into  the  nozzle,  where  it
        accumulates, freezes through evaporative cooling, and flakes  off
        during  the  next firing. The ejected burn byproducts  travel  at
        about  1000 ft/sec. One pulse usually emits about a quarter pound
        of propellant in a fan-shaped plume.

        When  small, drifting debris particles are hit by this RCS  plume
        they are violently accelerated away from the jet. This is what is
        seen  in the infamous "Case 2" sequence, where a flash  (the  jet
        firing)  is  immediately followed by all nearby  particles  being
        pushed away from the jet, followed shortly later by a fast moving
        object  (evidently RCS fuel ice) departing from the direction  of
        the  jet (the streak is caused by the slow camera speed). If  one
        plotted  all  the departure lines of the pushed  debris  and  the
        expelled ice, they would converge at the jet's location.

        These  ice particles, in particular, form slowly inside the  jets
        and  elsewhere, as the fluid (water or propellant) seeps out  and
        spreads over the surface, They take on the shape of the structure
        they  form on. They can thus have just about any  shape,  usually
        flat.  They  have been seen and photographed  for  thirty  years,
        about  as  long  as  UFOlogists have  mistaken  them  for  flying
        saucers.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 14:23:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <8z7lj#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Cary:
>I think you making fun of me.

I think you are right.

>Are you a girl or boy.
>John Winston.


That's for me to know and you to not find out. *grin*

Cary

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Cary Collett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: DON'T EAT GREYS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 14:32:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard D Warner) writes:
>    Like most of you, I grew up a grey and potato man, but not anymore.
>My cousin Billy Bob said that "those greasy greys aint good to eat" and it's
>true.  I had my cholestrol checked last month and it was 280.

I've heard that if you follow them with a decent red wine it will help
keep the cholestrol levels down.  Or was that cheese?
>
>Rich
>
Cary

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Russell J. Davoli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 18:43:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: National Instruments Corp.
Lines: 40
Nntp-Posting-Host: red.natinst.com

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (sm) writes:
>
>  * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
>  * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
>  * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:09
>
> <<..Continued from previous message>>
>
> ...
>
>  The  site  is isolated and cut-off from general  access,  except
> from the air or the use of snowmobiles, or ski's, 6 months of the
> year  because  of heavy snow conditions. A well  constructed  and
> permanent  "fire"  lookout tower on top of Pilot Peak  (K-2)  was
> suddenly abandoned several years ago. Discussions with local U.S.
> Forest Rangers, indicate there are no intentions of ever  manning
> or  re-activating  the fire lookout station.  Budgetary  problems
> were  not a factor. The explanation given, was that  the  lookout
> was  obsolete.  Fire  spotting,  these  days,  according  to  the
> rangers, is better accomplished by patrolling aircraft.
>
>  This explanation, (in 1989) seems suspect and insubstantial,  at
> best.  Evidence to support these claims are provided by the  fact
> that   other  fire  lookout  stations,  in  nearby   areas,   are
> operational  and manned throughout the peak summer  fire  season.
> Why is the K-2 fire lookout an exception?

I've read or heard a couple of pieces in the mainstream news lately concerning
the fire lookout towers and how these are now being rented out to people
who want to vacation in a remote spot with a great view.  According to the
reports, many of these towers were "suddenly abandoned" a few years ago for
the reason stated above.  Plus, the Forest Service or whoever owns the towers
can make a few bucks to help their budgets out this way.  The official
explanation doesn't seem the least bit suspect to me, unless you're convinced
that this bit of news is a further attempt at spreading misinformation.

Maybe you folks who really want to get to bottom of things can rent that tower
out and make your own observations.  Unless you make it known that you're
going there just to watch for the aliens, no one is going to know any better,
right?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 18:20:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (ERICK TODD COLBERT) writes:
>
>Does anyone know of a book called "Bridge to Infinity?"
>
>
>I have heard it's "banned" in the US, but is available through a small company
>under a different name.
>
>This book refered to Ley Lines and their relationship to the sightings of
>"UFO's"

There is *no such thing* (thank &deity) as a book being "banned" in the U.S.!
In the past when such a claim has been made, what it usually meant
was something like: "Publisher X had bought publication rights for the U.K.
and Canada, but was not allowed to sell in the U.S., or else faced a lawsuit
for breach of contract."

If anyone could *substantiate* a claim that some book was "banned" in the
U.S., THAT would be more newsworthy than the book itself.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <448ls![e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 18:29:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 15

Isn't that the "pickup line" used in a singles' bar?

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!ovid!wlamonac
From: [e-mail] (william lamonaca)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Banned Books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 19:51:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Lines: 4

Weren't Wilhelm Reich's books banned in the US for some time?  I know that
at one point, the government stepped in and burned all the copies of his
books that they could get their hands on (which, IMHO, is just as chilling
and disgusting as if they HAD banned the books).
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!sunova!bolivia!peterson
From: [e-mail] (William Peterson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Perot for President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 20:04:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (William Peterson)
Distribution: na
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: bolivia.ssc.gov


You Fools! Perot is a grey.
How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
Why did he suddenly decide to run?
Why is he so secretive?
Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes Pres?
Why is he so scared of the press?
Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
Who is he really reporting to?

I think it is clear what his plans are.
He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the why for the grey invasion.
And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.


Vote for Clinton. Jennifer can vouch for him not being an alien.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 20:32:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
|>
|>  > Dear Michael:
|>  > I read all of the information that you posted and appreciated your work
|>  > and the work of the The Phoenix Report but I don't believe it.  It
|>  > doesn't
|>  > add up to me and I won't explain why. Your may be right and I'm wrong.
|>  > I hope I am wrong in this case.
|>  > That's all folks.
|>  > John Winston.
|>
|> First, that was not my work, nor did I have anything to do with it.  Someone
|> uploaded that material to ParaNet and I simply reposted it with permission.  I
|> have found numerous problems with it myself and, although I do not necessarily
|> believe that something is happening at Dulce, I think that the Phoenix
|> material is just more disinformation.
|>
|> Mike
|>
[sig toasted]


If the Dulce and K2 reports were disinformation, then perhaps "they"
were trying to get people away from Dulce and into some wild goose
chase in the K2 area.

It's a conspiracy!!!!




;^)


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <mad-celt.710723824@odin>
Date: 9 Jul 92 23:17:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <448ls![e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 18


Well the Palladium Role Playing Games: Rifts and Beyond the Supernatural, Ley
Lines are streams of magical energy that very in size and power.  They cover
the Earth and intersect in 'Nexus Points' (spots of enourmous energy) in
various places around the world.  Some of the more powerful nexus points are
Stone Henge, Bermuda Triangle, and the Gateway arch in St. Louis.

Of course these are 'fantasy' games are intended to be fictional.  If there is
any occult truth to these publications, it was probably intentional and was
to disbelieved.  I doubt any one at Palladium believes what they write.

But you never know, they may be telling truths and wish everyone to discover
the power of the occult. :D "Yeah, right!"
--
| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Greys and F.U.I. (Flying Under the Influence)
Message-ID: <mad-celt.710724669@odin>
Date: 9 Jul 92 23:31:09 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 16

[e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:

> Can you tell me whether the greys had a designated driver.  Can you
>imagine running off the road at lightspeed.

I wonder what the local police would do if they had to give greys a sobriety
test.  How would they pull them over in the first place?  Maybe they stop all
flying saucers going through a checkpoint.  If the greys were speeding would
they even register on radar?

What would be the maximum penalty for FUI (Flying Under the Influence)?
--
| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 00:22:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Rich:
Ok I you win that arguement. Maybe is was't a flame.  I consider
you to be a person who is sincere.
John Winston
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 00:27:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Mr. Sheaffer:
Thanks for your comments. I have read a lot about the gentleman in
question but am unfarmiliar with the book.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!hep1.physics.arizona.edu!wallin
From: [e-mail] (Tripp Wallin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 00:19:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world,local
Lines: 36
Nntp-Posting-Host: hep1.physics.arizona.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:
|> [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:
|>
|> >[e-mail] (Tripp Wallin) writes:
|>
|> >>  Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around
|> >>  the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were
|> >>  drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.).
|>
|> >Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK.  Free beer tastes better.:)
|> >As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding.  I
|> >don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper).  I
|> >like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen).  Sam Adams is good too.  I
|> >haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers.
|>
|> >Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue.  I'm
|> >curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :)
|>
|> >I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;)
|> >--
|> >| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
|> >| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
|> >| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
|>
|>
|>  Can you tell me whether the greys had a designated driver.  Can you
|> imagine running off the road at lightspeed.
|> >| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |

  Well that explains all the UFO sitings. I mean you figure if they have technology
  enough to travel from light-years away they could probably avoid detection from us.
  Its probably just a bunch of greys get wasted and forget to put on their sheilding.
  Or at least thats how I met Frank and Edna the two greys that I share a house with.

  Tripp Wallin
  Physics and Math Undergraduate
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 00:59:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <8z7lj#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Dear Cary:
That was a very funny respose that you gave.
Due to the fact that it looks like I'm never going to be able to post from
a floppy disk the information about Ley Lines let me tell you something
about a thing that I checked out a few years back.  The things are called
The Mysterious Rock Walls Or Fences. They are very controversial so here is
my opinion on them.  They exist between Berkeley, Calif and Milpitas, Calif.
In most cases they are only about 4 feet or less high and don't appear to
be made to keep in cattle or anything. Sometimes they go parallel to one
an other for a few hundred yards and then stop. The only thing that any
sense to me is that they are made to focus the energy in the Ley Lines to
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 01:11:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <8z7lj#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 8

make the area more conducive to the presence of man.  I've also found
figures impressed on boulders that have about 20 chacters on them. These were
impressed on a sort of cement that was placed on the boulders. Some
people say the figures are 220 years old.  My sources of information
say that they are about 22,000 or more years old. They may have been
made by a previous civilization. The local Alone Indians say they didn't
make them. It's quite a mystery.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 01:24:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <448ls![e-mail]>
  <mad-celt.710723824@odin>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

Dear Mad Celt:
Many times the truth is put forward in sort of a silly way, especially
in merry ole England. Tell the truth and be on the next bond fire.
Stone Hendge is one of the points of maximun energy.  Mt. Shasta is one.
Although I will probubly misspell them the points of energy also are in
Gladsbury, England, The Royal Tetons, USA, the H. mountains in India, the
Great Pyramid and a few others.  So what you mention is jest may be truer
than you thought.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 01:35:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 6

Dear Emma:
The areas where Ley Lines are most concentrated doesn't especially
always have to be in a high point.  People have found them in all
sorts of places.  Granted they many times have stones placed where
they are most concentrated.
Joh Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 01:40:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <448ls![e-mail]>
  <mad-celt.710723824@odin>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Mr. Sheaffer:
Your mention of the Singles Bad reminds me that it was in such a place
that I heard Sylvia Brown speak.  She is a very entertaining speaker.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!tcumming
From: [e-mail] (Tom Cumming)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 00:50:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6965 sci.skeptic:27110

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (!) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>To vu0208:
>>You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment.
    It's breakfast time!

>How we were brought on "earth" planet?
    adam and eve were a "seed" population

>Why we were down loaded here?
    good grazing

>What they want from us now?
    food

>Can we go back and live with them?
    for dinner...

>How do they plan to take us back there..?
    cattle trucks :-)

Tom (moo moooo moo) Cumming.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!vu0208
From: [e-mail] (!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 03:48:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Lines: 52
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6966 sci.skeptic:27115
Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Cumming) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (!) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>>>To vu0208:
>>>You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment.
>    It's breakfast time!

I thought they eat cereal for breakfast or was it ham?

>
>>How we were brought on "earth" planet?
>    adam and eve were a "seed" population

So adam and eve were one of them...hmmm!

>
>>Why we were down loaded here?
>    good grazing
>

Then they should go to china and India where more than 2/3 of the
population lies, why come to this barren western hemisphere?

>>What they want from us now?
>    food
>

Well we can arrange a something like "we are the world.." type show
for them as we did for Ethiopia, didn't we!

>>Can we go back and live with them?
>    for dinner...

Where?  at McDonalds!

>
>>How do they plan to take us back there..?
>    cattle trucks :-)

No we will settle for less than a flying saucer or even a FLYING CUP !!!


>
>Tom (moo moooo moo) Cumming.

Hey tommy boy, stop moooing and start grazing or you will become a
food for thought! :) :)  )::(
                         ----
                          |
                          |
                       an alien smilie in the mirror!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims
From: [e-mail] (Emma Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 09:31:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <448ls![e-mail]>   <mad-celt.710723824@odin> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Mad Celt:
>Many times the truth is put forward in sort of a silly way, especially
>in merry ole England. Tell the truth and be on the next bond fire.
>Stone Hendge is one of the points of maximun energy.  Mt. Shasta is one.
>Although I will probubly misspell them the points of energy also are in
>Gladsbury, England, The Royal Tetons, USA, the H. mountains in India, the
>Great Pyramid and a few others.

    Yes! You did! Sorry, John, here's my 2 cents worth:
It's Stonehenge and Glastonbury!!!
    (Comes of being and English major! :)
                EMMA!


  So what you mention is jest may be truer
>than you thought.
>John Winston

..
    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims
From: [e-mail] (Emma Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 09:41:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Emma:
>The areas where Ley Lines are most concentrated doesn't especially
>always have to be in a high point.  People have found them in all
>sorts of places.  Granted they many times have stones placed where
>they are most concentrated.
>Joh Winston

    Dear John,
        I didn't actually say that the nexus points are always
on high ground. My exact words were "...or on an area of high ground"!
I had also mentioned standing stones on tracks and crossroads and
shrines (which were usually hidden in hollows or groves surrounded by
trees. Pools and wells where the ground dips are also other points! :)
                EMMA!

    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 12:27:07 GMT
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Beede) writes:

>That's not nearly as irritating as when you're thinking about
>something and you suddenly start thinking ``beep.....beep....beep''
>and it's that stupid ``ESP call waiting'' and they start asking you
>about pyramid-shaped permanent siding and ``are you thinking of making
>any monoliths around the house--our representive can call for a free
>estimate.''  There oughta be a law, that's what _I_ say!

I used to have that happen all the time, they'd interrupt important
channeled conversations or call while I was doing my breathing
exercises in the hot tub, but then we finally got Caller-ID on our
Cosmic Switchboard and now I contact them back and dump an enless loop
of negative energy into their ectoplasmic fax machine.  Next week I'm
getting screening built into my psionic shields so only known callers
will get through, others will get an astral projection of Figure 1.
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     They collapsed.... like nuns in the street... they had no
 |warren@      teen appeal!
/ nysernet.org
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!siesoft!imw
From: [e-mail] (Ian Wild)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 12:42:19 GMT
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X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

[e-mail] (Mcirvin) writes:
: [e-mail] writes:
:
: [reasonable objections deleted]
:
: >So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them
: >at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim...
:
: Let me add something that I don't think has been brought up yet:  you don't
: need to do align all the spins in a system in some special way to "make it
: a boson."  A system made of an even number of spin-1/2 fermions, for
: instance, has in general some superposition of different integer spins, so
: it's a boson in any case.  You may be a boson right now (assuming that
: there's some way of unambiguously counting your atoms).  There's nothing
: special associated with this.

I think some clues about the problem may be obtained from, of all places,
the financial community.  Consider money.  No matter how big my pocket
may be, eventually it will fill up if I keep putting money into it.  Money,
therefore, is intrinsically fermionic in nature.  But if I take that same
money to a bank, it clearly becomes bosonic - who ever heard of a bank
being too full to accept a deposit?  So what's the trick?

imw
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 13:25:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

To Everybody:
This subject of Ley Lines has now been expanded to two more collections
by other people asking questions.  In order for it to make any sense at all
I would suggest you look at the other two collections.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 13:28:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Emma:
I stand corrected. You are exactly right.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 13:35:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <448ls![e-mail]>
  <mad-celt.710723824@odin> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Emma:
I just looked at the spelling of Glastonbury on the current
issue of Fate magazine and figured someone would nail me on it and
you were the one.  Thanks for the spelling of the  other word, ha.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 14:41:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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Erick;[you write]

>Does anyone know of a book called "Bridge to Infinity?"


>I have heard it's "banned" in the US, but is available through a small
company
>under a different name.


The book is available out here in California. Even though we can't pay our
bills, we are still part of this nation.....I think. :->

The name of the bookstore one can get a copy is "East/West Bookstore" in
Menlo Park.Dial [phone] for information.

Hope this helps,
Rod



--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 14:31:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Cary:
>That was a very funny respose that you gave.
>Due to the fact that it looks like I'm never going to be able to post from
>a floppy disk the information about Ley Lines let me tell you something
>about a thing that I checked out a few years back.  The things are called
>The Mysterious Rock Walls Or Fences. They are very controversial so here is
>my opinion on them.  They exist between Berkeley, Calif and Milpitas, Calif.
>In most cases they are only about 4 feet or less high and don't appear to
>be made to keep in cattle or anything. Sometimes they go parallel to one
>an other for a few hundred yards and then stop. The only thing that any
>sense to me is that they are made to focus the energy in the Ley Lines to
>make the area more conducive to the presence of man.  I've also found
>figures impressed on boulders that have about 20 chacters on them. These were
>impressed on a sort of cement that was placed on the boulders. Some
>people say the figures are 220 years old.  My sources of information
>say that they are about 22,000 or more years old. They may have been
>made by a previous civilization. The local Alone Indians say they didn't
>make them. It's quite a mystery.
>John Winston.

As far as the purpose of the walls goes they may not serve any purpose.
In Scotland and Ireland there are quaint walls running all over the
farm land.  This land is typically VERY rocky.  They walls are there
because to actually haul all the stones out of the fields to somewhere
else would have taken too much time, especially before the invention
of the internal combustion engine.

If they are 22,000 years old then any local indians sure wouldn't have
been there then.  Here in New Mexico there are what call petroglyphs
or pictographs at many sites.  While I don't belive any of them are as
ancient as 22,000 years they do date from the 1st millenia and earlier
2nd millenia AD.

I don't know what kind of an account you have but it seems to have
fairly limited capabilities.  Do have a a frined who can up load the
file to his account and then mail/post it.  Or failing that where
did you get the info?

Cary


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 14:49:23 GMT
References: <mcirvin.710611575@husc8> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ian Wild) writes:
>
>I think some clues about the problem may be obtained from, of all places,
>the financial community.  Consider money.  No matter how big my pocket
>may be, eventually it will fill up if I keep putting money into it.  Money,
>therefore, is intrinsically fermionic in nature.  But if I take that same
>money to a bank, it clearly becomes bosonic - who ever heard of a bank
>being too full to accept a deposit?  So what's the trick?
>
>imw

I think you have forgotten something.  You can get larger bills.  Although
getting congress to print an arbitrarily large bill might be difficult.
Also you could carry the money around in the form of a check which
as far as I know has no limit on the figure on the check.  Or failing
any of these just get bigger pockets!

Cary

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Banned Books
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 16:52:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (william lamonaca) writes:
>Weren't Wilhelm Reich's books banned in the US for some time?  I know that
>at one point, the government stepped in and burned all the copies of his
>books that they could get their hands on (which, IMHO, is just as chilling
>and disgusting as if they HAD banned the books).

This is what Robert Anton WIlson claims, who shows a definite resistance
to getting facts straight. Reich was prosecuted not as a so-called
"heretic", but because he was a cancer quack. (Note how Wilson's discussion
of this in his "New Inquisition" scrupulously avoids any mention of *why*
this was done; he wants you to see "Inquisitors", not "misguided consumer
protection.") Reich was claiming his "orgone
energy" quackery could cure cancer, and was selling machines to be used
for that purpose. The FDA moved against him in court, Reich *refusing to
defend himself* as a matter of principle. As a consequence, the FDA
got from the judge everything it asked for, including an order to stop
promoting "orgone energy" in any way. That's what happens in an 'adversarial
process' when one side won't play: it gets shafted. Had Reich allowed his
lawyer to fight this, the court order would likely have forbidden him
to sell the quack machines, but left his writings alone. As it was,
everything was seized as "contraband" because it allegedly defrauded the
public as part of a scheme promoting a worthless "cancer cure". Until
Reich's machines were being used to fraudulently "cure cancer", nobody
in the government cared *what* he was writing.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 17:13:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Emma Williams) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>Dear Emma:
>>The areas where Ley Lines are most concentrated doesn't especially
>>always have to be in a high point.  People have found them in all
>>sorts of places.  Granted they many times have stones placed where
>>they are most concentrated.
>>Joh Winston
>
>    Dear John,

Sending "Dear John" letters over the net.  How sad. :^)

Sorry, cound'nt resist. Bet John gets those all the time.

>                EMMA!
>    ____________________________________________________________________
>    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
>    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
>    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
>    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
>

Rich

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: _The Frugal Gourmet's Gulf Breeze Cookbook_
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Jul 92 17:25:05 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
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Book Alert!

     _The Frugal Gourmet's Gulf Breeze Cookbook_!

I picked this little gem up yesterday at the local Bookstop and it's
a real treasure (even though I personally think Jeff Smith is more
than a bit anal-retentive). Still, I'd recommend that anyone with a
serious interest in cooking our extraterrestrial friends pick up a
copy.

Lots of good recipes for Gray (which, due to copyright I cannot
reproduce here) including such tempting sounding repasts as

        Oysters Gray
        Gray Summer Sausage (in natural casing)
        Gray Cutlets w/ Mint Jelly
        Gray Poupon
        Gray Mouser (with or without Fahrfed)

....and several hundred other recipes, all gathered from the kitchens
of the local (human) inhabitants.

Also has sections on gourmet cooking with Pleaideans (and non-
gourmet cooking, too; the Pleaidean Pot Pie sounds really
scrumptious), Nords, Reptilians, and an extensive how-to section
on raising and caring for Grays in your own backyard (historically
a common practice in the area).

Anyway, check it out, and as always, Bon Apetit!

Also, while on culinary matters:

[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:

> [here's the barby recipe-hmmmmm]
> I marinated the little bastards('cause of the tough skin)overnight
> in lemon, garlic, vegetable oil, and red table wine(just a sconch).
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Excellent idea! Thanks for sharing that! (although I'll probably
find myself using more than "just a sconch", if ya know what I
mean :-)

> P.S. I don't know what became of that nest of grays that was
> around my area, but I haven't seen them in awhile. I had to use
> the ones I had left in the freezer. I was hoping some would land
> for the barbeque:-)

Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but didn't someone once post
plans for a "UFO attractor" device of some sort? If so, could they
kindly repost it? Gourmands across the .net will be ever-so-grateful!

Craig
-- "Again," she said.             Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
-- "I'm afraid you've mistaken me       Internet: [e-mail] --
--  for someone else," the            Austin: [e-mail] --
--  bureaucrat said amiably.                        VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
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From: [e-mail] (Emma Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 19:32:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>     <[e-mail]> <448ls![e-mail]>     <mad-celt.710723824@odin> <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Emma:
>I just looked at the spelling of Glastonbury on the current
>issue of Fate magazine and figured someone would nail me on it and
>you were the one.  Thanks for the spelling of the  other word, ha.
>John Winston


    You're welcome, John! Anytime! :)

            Emma!

    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
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From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 13:15:02 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>That's right Rich. We'll make a master of you yet but it may take a
>while.
>That's all folks.
>John Winston.


Hey John, I see you got your email working! Good to see you on the net.

                                   Denise


--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||      Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992    ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Pamela Thompson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER GREYS?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 21:15:33 GMT
Expires: 17 Jul 92 07:00:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (P.J. Thompson)
Distribution: na
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Like, all I know is that this grey I was dating last summer would drink
nothing but Grolsch or St. Pauly's Girl.  Of course, he was also fond of
Rolex watches and drove a BMW and talked incessantly about what an
important job he had piloting a spacecraft ("I'm bringing down 50k per
zorbgob, babe.").  His grey friends used to talk about him behind his back
and call him a Guppie (Grey Upwardly Mobile Professional, I believe), and
since I felt his lifestyle was morally reprehensile and thoroughly
discredited, I broke off our engagement (but kept the ring).  (Besides, I
just couldn't stand to listen to ONE MORE store about navigating the Rings of
Uranus.  WHAT A B-O-R-E.)

--P.J. Thompson

:-) Believe me, I speak for no one on this earth but myself. ;-)
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From: [e-mail] (J. Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re^2: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 17:50:22 GMT
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elinor louisea abdalla etc. etc. writes:
>...
>Hey, all the greys I know (and thats lots since NM is grand central
>station for aliens) drink Guiness!

So the LGM *were* Nords before they started drinking that swill!  Or is
that Nerds?  Oh well, gotta go hyperventilate and blink my flashlight...
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 04:27:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
> WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! Gary came to pick me (Joan) up at my appartment
> and I came out to great him.  I had to go back up to my place to get a
> tampon and when I went back down Gary had been replace with a CLONE. I went
> with him anyway and had a great time.  Gary (the real one) is a drag and his
> dick is all cut up.  The CLONE is a real man and his dick isn't all in
> ribbons. This is a mess...
>
Joan shame on you! The guy has enough problems already.
Don't talk so cocky, he could get a penal transplant that never
goes soft, then you won't be talking so smart.

BTW, speaking of soft penals...ever notice that Perot looks like
a hybrid Gray? Think about it.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jul 92 22:03:47 GMT
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Ah yes.  Thank you all.  Flying saucers and I are 45 this year.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

--
===========================================================================
|| Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744  U.S.A. Earth ||
||   Anthropologist, Writer, Editor    -*-     IN%"[e-mail]"   ||
||   Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance.  All Rights Reserved    ||
===========================================================================
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!hotcity!kirkm
From: [e-mail] (Kirk Marcroft)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Welcome
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 08:15:22 GMT
Organization: BBS
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Welcome to Earth........Now go home!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 08:46:40 GMT
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Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
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Did anyone else out there catch the Sightings show on the Fox Network last
night (10 July 92)?  I know some of you are overseas, so here is a brief
overview.

        Apparently some of the latest UFO sightings have a common
characteristc.  Men in black have been threatening the witnesses!!  These
Men in black or MIB's are being reported by witnesses throughout the
world (i.e. Canada and Russia), as well as here in the U.S.  The
description of these MIB's by witnesses seems to indicate that the MIB's
may well be aliens themselves.  Supposedly, they have slightly larger than
normal heads, skinny bodies, and large eyes.  They have been threatening
UFO witnesses with their lives.
        Has anyone else ever heard of these MIB's?  I'm sorta new to this
game.  I've long followed UFO reports and have never heard of MIB's.



                                   Joseph A. Citro III
                           (Who will never take the time to make a signature)

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From: [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <mad-celt.710843848@odin>
Date: 11 Jul 92 08:37:28 GMT
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Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
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Well in my previous post about the use of ley lines in Palladium RPG's, stated
that they were fictional publications.  They are but the creator's of the games
often use ideas taken from occult and related non-fiction sources.  It is now
apparent to me that this is the case about ley lines.  The only information I
have on ley lines is from reading the rule books for Rifts and Beyond the
Supernatural.  I do not know how accurate these books are or how much
embelishment there is.

To John:
I was questioning the validity of the games account of ley lines not the
exhistance of them.  I have no real information on the subject.  I would not
doubt the possibility of ley lines, but I myself have seen no evidence to the
exhistence of ley lines.

In the book for Rifts there is a reference to the St. Louis Arch that is
disturbing (especially if it's true) about it is believed that the Arch was
constructed and deliberately named the Gateway Arch by a secret group of
occultists that knew of the site's magical properties.  Since the time of the
rifts came a permanent dementional gateway has formed inside circumfrance of
the arch.  Now of course the time of rifts is a fictional future, but is there
any truth in the exhistance of the arch's occult purposes. :)

--
| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 13:10:12 GMT
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I checked Arasia's material again and she refers to herself as being
a walkin.
John Winston.  I know some people will really make a joke out of that
statement of fact.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 13:34:05 GMT
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Dear Tom and VU208:
Sometimes the flames are better than my material.  My comlements to you.
You asked in jest how are we brought on earth planet and then mention
Adam and Eve.  The story of Adam ane Eve is about two people but at a deeper
level it is the story of the Adamic race (a highly evolved spiritual race
of people) who came to earth and mated with the more fleshly animal type
of being (who were fair to look upon) and they produced the race that we
are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by
Eve in the story.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 13:39:41 GMT
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Dear Charles:
Thanks for the address of CAUS. I sent them a request by mail and will
try to keep you informed as to how everything comes out.
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From: [e-mail] (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 18:57:27 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Tom and VU208:
>Sometimes the flames are better than my material.  My comlements to you.
>You asked in jest how are we brought on earth planet and then mention
>Adam and Eve.  The story of Adam ane Eve is about two people but at a deeper
>level it is the story of the Adamic race (a highly evolved spiritual race
>of people) who came to earth and mated with the more fleshly animal type
>of being (who were fair to look upon) and they produced the race that we
>are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by
>Eve in the story.
>John Winston.

How can two types of beings who evolved separately have similar enough genes
to mate and produce children?
--
Hi! Ani mutacia shel virus .signature. Ha`atek oti letoch .signature shelcha!

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: [e-mail])
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jul 92 23:12:07 GMT
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>
>>
>>    Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents
>>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's
>>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles...
>>
>>                            James Nicoll
>
>     Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that.  Seems like a potential source
> of usuable energy.

  Actually, it could be a source of energy. In a 1960 paper in Astronautica
Acta entitled "Galactic Matter and Interstellar Flight", R. W. Bussard proposed
a ship that would employ a large deflection field to channel interstellar gas
into a fusion drive that would be able to constantly accelerate the ship over
long periods of time and thus allow interstellar flights in single-generation
starships.
  Bussard was an engineer who wrote several books on designs for nuclear
powered aircraft (none of which, fortunately, are in common use). His work is
pretty sound, but goes into enough technical detail to possibly dismay some
laymen.
  Anyway, Bussard does not attempt to come up with engineering approaches for
building a ship like this; in fact, it's highly unlikely that the technology
will exist in our lifetime, or even that of our grandkids. Instead, he uses a
parameter of frontal area loading density per unit of interstellar gas density,
measured in gm/cm^2 per (reactive nucleon)/cm^3 to describe the ship and
calculate parameters of its performance. He demonstrates that to achieve an
acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!
  Still, it's a fun idea to think about, and a number of scientifically
literate sci-fi authors have used the idea, including Poul Anderson (Tau Zero),
James Hogan (Voyage to Yesteryear), and Larry Niven, who coined the name
"Bussard ramjet" for this sort of ship.

Cheers,
Sam Silverstein
UW-Madison Dept. of Physics

(Standard Disclaimer....blah,blah,etc.)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 13:23:22 GMT
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Dear Arromdee:
You asked how two different types of beings can mate with one another. The
answer is very carefully. The same thing is happening right now with the
people from Z. Reticulli 1 and 2 and ourselves.  You have a group of
people like the greys who evolved so that they are totally logical
brought together with our civilization, a group of people who are very
emotional.  The product of this union is bringing forth a
civilization that has some of the good qualities of the two civilizations.
The greys have a different means of elimination in that they eliminate
their waste products through the skin.
That's all folks. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 13:34:08 GMT
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Dear Rod:
I highly recommend the East West Book Store in Menlo Park. They have
a wide range of far out books that I assure you will broaden a person's
horizons.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 13:49:56 GMT
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Dear Cary: Your explanation of the production of the stone walls is
one of the many valid ones put forward. I did my investigation of the
Walls with a scientific group consisting of a medical doctor by the last
name of Fisher who is a well respected person in Fremont, Calif.  We
met for the first time in a Park in Berkley, Calif. where the  local
park ranger gives tours of the rock walls. I also took pictures for a
lady who had planned to write a book on the general subject of areas
that have energy coming from them.  I haven't been in contact with her
for a few years and don't know wheather she came out with the book yet.
She is known as a ghost writer.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 13:58:34 GMT
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Dear Sir:
Thanks for the information. It's very hard to tell who is telling the truth
and who is telling the untruth (dis-information). I wish it was like the
old cowboy movies where the good guys wore the white hats and the bad guys
wore black hats.  Let's hope that truth will win out.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 14:39:36 GMT
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Dear Information person:
As S---- would say, interesting.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Rannou)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 09:27:14 GMT
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 7 Jul 92 03:48:22 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:



   In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
   |> Dear Arasis:
   |> I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching
   |> the fire works.  At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and
   |> pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I
   |> blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for
   |> sure what) was blinking back.  I sent the people inside the mountain and
   |> the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work
   |> with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you
   |> Arasis for your suggestion that we do this.
   |> That's all folks.
   |> John Winston.


   Is this guy for real?

   Anyone know him?


I'm sure that by "telephatic message" he meant that even though HE know he
can't send ones, he made his "thoughts" formulated as if he was saying
words in his head, and if BY CHANCE there happened to be a alien, be it
green or whatever, who happened to have telephatic powers and "read"
peoples mind, then the alien could have catched it.

Pretty useless, IMHO. I've done it also.

The guy's for real. You're just too close minded.

Really, with enough "facts", anybody can make anybody, even himself,
believe just about anything. That absolutely has no bearing on wheter
the "anything" is true or false.

Patrick.
--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| [e-mail]    |
\---------------------------/